An observation about divers
- Thread starter randytay
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From listening to the klutzing around from the
"It's my gear and I'll dive how I want to" people
And seeing the results in the inadequately trained
A reasonable person would want to learn first properly
and then klutz around only IF they want to, not because
they find themselves in the position of where they have to.
The optimal grounding for a rock solid lifetime of diving is U.T.D.
Even if you are able to find that elusive experienced diver "mentor" person.
Disclaimer:
The "term" mentor added for clarity.
Read: folks I hook up with, that may know what they are doing
to whom I may wish to aspire, if time and personality's are agreeable.
But then the one that closes and locks the door is the only keeper of the key. :goingdown:
"It's my gear and I'll dive how I want to" people
And seeing the results in the inadequately trained
A reasonable person would want to learn first properly
and then klutz around only IF they want to, not because
they find themselves in the position of where they have to.
The optimal grounding for a rock solid lifetime of diving is U.T.D.
Even if you are able to find that elusive experienced diver "mentor" person.
Disclaimer:
The "term" mentor added for clarity.
Read: folks I hook up with, that may know what they are doing
to whom I may wish to aspire, if time and personality's are agreeable.
But then the one that closes and locks the door is the only keeper of the key. :goingdown:
bkotheimer
Contributor
In all seriousness, I've learned a lot from the DIR crowd and adhere to a few of their principles because they make good sense, like the long hose and bungied backup (also ditched the split fins). Other practices are simply not relevant to the open water recreational diver. (You won't see a bolt snap at the end of my long hose -- there's just no occasion when I would ever clip it off in the kind of diving I do.) Overall, I think the idea of truly following the buddy system and the concepts of keeping your rig nice and streamlined are based on responsible, safe and efficient diving.
The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. Those DIR, UTD, insert your favorite initial here crowd, who are typical folks, are great people and divers. They are always willing to help and accept. Those minority squeaky ones who beat their chests and denigrate everyone else, are the ones most remember. That is not fair, but the way it is.
I am glad you are finding training that works for you and makes you better yourself as a diver. Keep it up.
I am glad you are finding training that works for you and makes you better yourself as a diver. Keep it up.
About 10 - 12 years ago, there were DIR advocates on forums with a "superior than thou" attitude. I've not seen it in many years and I've never seen it from a DIR diver I met diving.
Sas
Contributor
I haven't found any DIR people to be problematic at all. The people I do find annoying though, are those that rant about every DIR person being a douche because one DIR person might have once said something to them that was slightly not to their liking.
Amphiprion
Contributor
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In my mind, Hogarthian denotes a type of minimalist type of equipment configuration. This configuration is used by DIR and UTD (as far as I know) in their diving styles.
Beyond equipment configuration, DIR and UTD have team mentality above and beyond the open water statement of "always dive with a buddy". In DIR and UTD practice, your buddy or your team is really considered part of your necessary dive equipment.
For the record, I am IANTD trained, so what I said may not be exactly correct, but I have gone diving with a few people trained by GUE and this appears to be their mentality.
I think it actually has a lot of advantages but can unfortunately be too easily preached and used to disparage fellow divers. Overall, I think this style of diving is actually a good thing. I used to consider myself a bit of a solo diver, and enjoyed the fact that people weren't trying to communicate with me all the time or tell me what I was doing incorrectly. On the other hand, my communication skills deteriorated and I was able to reinforce bad diving practices.
For me, I know that I don't need a buddy for a 30' dive with no current in clear blue water. But practicing the communication and team building skills will help me when I do have buddies on a 200' dive in heavy current.
Beyond equipment configuration, DIR and UTD have team mentality above and beyond the open water statement of "always dive with a buddy". In DIR and UTD practice, your buddy or your team is really considered part of your necessary dive equipment.
For the record, I am IANTD trained, so what I said may not be exactly correct, but I have gone diving with a few people trained by GUE and this appears to be their mentality.
I think it actually has a lot of advantages but can unfortunately be too easily preached and used to disparage fellow divers. Overall, I think this style of diving is actually a good thing. I used to consider myself a bit of a solo diver, and enjoyed the fact that people weren't trying to communicate with me all the time or tell me what I was doing incorrectly. On the other hand, my communication skills deteriorated and I was able to reinforce bad diving practices.
For me, I know that I don't need a buddy for a 30' dive with no current in clear blue water. But practicing the communication and team building skills will help me when I do have buddies on a 200' dive in heavy current.
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It's just diving ... something we all do for recreation. And as in any recreational activity there will be some who take it more seriously than others, some who put more importance on developing their skills to a high level than others, some who will use it as an expression of ego more than others ... but most really won't care how you dive, as long as you're a safe dive buddy and fun to be around.
I have some DIR training. I dive with a lot of DIR people ... I also dive with a lot of non-DIR people. Nobody seems to care one way or another ... we're just out there to have fun. I read a lot of myths and misconceptions about DIR on the Internet. Most times I see train wrecks involving DIR, it's something that was brought up by someone who seems to have an axe to grind, despite not having any connection with DIR, or even a basic understanding of what it is.
It ain't for everybody ... but if it's a good fit with how you learn, and where you want your diving to go, then it can be a great way to attain skills to take you there. Just keep in mind it's not the only way ... and that those who choose a different way aren't any better or worse because of their training ... what defines the quality of a diver isn't their agency or diving style, it's their mental approach to diving and their determination to develop and adhere to safe management practices in their dive planning and execution.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you should judge people by how they treat you, by what they know, and by their willingness to share it with others ... rather than by what set of initials is on their C-cards. DIR is just another way to dive ... it's completely independent of the personalities of the people who choose to dive that way ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I have some DIR training. I dive with a lot of DIR people ... I also dive with a lot of non-DIR people. Nobody seems to care one way or another ... we're just out there to have fun. I read a lot of myths and misconceptions about DIR on the Internet. Most times I see train wrecks involving DIR, it's something that was brought up by someone who seems to have an axe to grind, despite not having any connection with DIR, or even a basic understanding of what it is.
It ain't for everybody ... but if it's a good fit with how you learn, and where you want your diving to go, then it can be a great way to attain skills to take you there. Just keep in mind it's not the only way ... and that those who choose a different way aren't any better or worse because of their training ... what defines the quality of a diver isn't their agency or diving style, it's their mental approach to diving and their determination to develop and adhere to safe management practices in their dive planning and execution.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you should judge people by how they treat you, by what they know, and by their willingness to share it with others ... rather than by what set of initials is on their C-cards. DIR is just another way to dive ... it's completely independent of the personalities of the people who choose to dive that way ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
DevonDiver
N/A
That's the crux of it. DIR practitioners (GUE, UTD etc) utilise Hogarthian configurations, but apply them in a strictly uniform structure, because they have a 'univeral team' mentality. Any DIR diver can dive with any DIR diver and they'll have comparable skills and an mirroring kit set-up.
Other tech agencies don't have that strong team emphasis, thus allow a wider degree of personal interpretation of a generally hogarthian approach.
I don't actually see many (any?) DIR divers saying you cannot dive this way, or that way. They just say "you cannot dive that way with me". It's not a kit issue - it's a team issue.
Even then, most DIR advocates are still flexible enough to enjoy diving with non-DIR divers...
I find the bolt snap very handy when I'm putting my kit together on a boat, or picking it up to put it in the back of the car. Having the primary clipped off while I'm walking down to the water means it won't fall off my shoulder and have to be found, or if I bend over, fall off and hit the ground and crack the case (had this happen to me once, when I wasn't diligent about clipping it off). You are certainly right that you don't use the clip underwater (unless you have to go to your backup reg for some reason) but it's mainly to control the regulator with all that hose, when it's not in use.
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