Warped View of the Dive World

[Sas]

Oh and as for me and my local diving:

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer. - NO

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks. - NO, steel 12L is the standard hire tank, sometimes 10L (100cf and 85cf)

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's. - The majority, yes but tonnes of BP/Ws around as well. Most of my buddies use BP/Ws

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits. - NO, 7mm or drysuit

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes. - YES

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins. - NO, rare

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives." - NO, only a few after OW in club dives I would say. Charters do not provide DMs to guide people other than for the HMAS Canberra (if OW divers want to penetrate it) or occasionally tourists.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100') - NO, around 30 perhaps.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch) - NO, within 30 I would say is more accurate (minor penetration in to local wrecks such as a submarine and a few other wrecks)

 

[Diver0001]

OK, so, on to MY warped view of the dive world

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)

Those last four may very well be due to me living 2 decades in Hawaii. :cool2:

I think the Dive Industry has "evolved" to supply the demand generated by the customers clamoring for the above list.

I'm off to the store in a minute to buy extra popcorn for this thread.

I think on the whole you're probably not too far off the mark that people who dive in Maui fall for maybe 80% into this vision. I would also add that the vast majority of "recreational divers" probably only make a hand-full of dives per year while on vacations.

I think the "fringe" of the Dive World (those not in 70 degree F or warmer water and those not "recreational") contending that the Dive Industry is not supporting their Dive World is like a Lamborghini dealer in Anchorage, Alaska contending that the Auto Industry is not supporting their Auto World.

This is where I think you're wrong, on two points. First of all, the "industry" of local shops and services out side of the tropics to a perfectly adequate job of supporting local diving activities. I'm originally from Canada's west coast and now live in the Netherlands and I've never experienced a lack of support from shops and/or other local divers in either of those places. That's where you're wrong. you're assuming that outside of the tropics the infrastructure is inadequate and/or that everyone is dissatisfied with what they have. Wrong wrong wrong.

The other point that you're missing here is that local divers outside of the tropics are not the "fringe". They are not the majority, but you would be surprised how much diving gets done in places you obviously think aren't worth diving. The West Coast of Canada, for example, probably has the best cold water diving in the world..... I think even Cousteau said that. Sure, it's not a popular vacation destination (at least not for diving purposes) but the local diving scene is VIBRANT. You would dismiss that as a "fringe" activity but you're simply wrong. In fact, I would contend that the average "local diver", wherever they happen to be dives more often and is far more passionate about their sport than the "average" recreational-vacation diver you see on vacation in Maui.

As for some users' comment that you have a "warped vision" of the diving world. From your post I would say you have a pretty good idea how it is in Maui but are completely clueless as to the overal big-picture world wide. It indicates 'ignorance' as opposed to a lack of realism. I would say you don't travel much, if I had to guess, so you're like the English speaking person who never went more than a few miles from where they were born and thinks that people who speak all other languages are the "fringe" and that all other languages are irrelevant.

I think what people object to isn't so much the vision you have of your local dive scene but the arrogance you have in making bold and assertive statements about the local dive scene elsewhere when really, you're completely clueless.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

I've been ignoring the boards for a couple months and might have missed out on a conversation or two - what's this lack of support you're on about?

-B

I think he's saying that if you own a Lamborghini that you can't get it fixed in Fairbanks and would have to take it to Anchorage.

R..

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I think what people object to isn't so much the vision you have of your local dive scene but the arrogance you have in making bold and assertive statements about the local dive scene elsewhere when really, you're completely clueless.

R..

I think you are very right about the what and why others react negatively to my bold assertive statements, but I think you will have a hard time finding statements I have made about local dive scenes other than those I have experience in. It's an issue of comprehension vs boiling blood.

I think most of my statements are along the lines of "why do you post as if your dive scene is the dive scene?" For example, I have never told a cold water diver not to consider spring straps; I have told cold water divers that telling warm water divers in 3 mm wet suits they "must" get spring straps is ludicrous!

I think there are way too many "local" statements typed as "absolutes" on the main forums. I have always thought I was pretty anal retentive about the way I type, and I am somewhat sorry for expecting similar from others. Hopefully I live up to my own expectations for others.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

OK, so, on to MY warped view of the dive world

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.

Not in my world..but it would be nice!

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.

I've used em a few times on dive trips but even that is rare

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.

Won't argue this one..but I sure see a lot of BPW's and Back inflates..

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.

Probably correct here

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.

no comment

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.

:shocked2:No way :hmm you know I have never done a single dive in fullfoot fins! I don't even think I have done a dive with someone wearing them!

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."

guided by whom? I can see you may get this impression if you are primarily working with people who have to fly significant distances with weight restrictions for their gear

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')

Nope.. missed again

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)

Where do you get this? A lot of divers aren't even close to this kind of "rock"

Those last four may very well be due to me living 2 decades in Hawaii. :cool2:

I think the Dive Industry has "evolved" to supply the demand generated by the customers clamoring for the above list.

I think you may be right... dealing with Vacation divers too much

I think the "fringe" of the Dive World (those not in 70 degree F or warmer water and those not "recreational") contending that the Dive Industry is not supporting their Dive World is like a Lamborghini dealer in Anchorage, Alaska contending that the Auto Industry is not supporting their Auto World.

It would be pretty cool if at least some of the responses followed a similar theme as the list in this post, but I do not require you to respond in any way other than be honest and open about YOUR views of the Dive World &/or the Dive Industry.

My perception of recreational diver is that there are two main groups

Younger people with money to spend on recreation who give up diving when they get married and have kids or find something more interesting so don't continue for more than 5 years.

The older group who have raised their kids and established themselves so they can afford to pursue their interest in diving.

 

[Brandon]

I think he's saying that if you own a Lamborghini that you can't get it fixed in Fairbanks and would have to take it to Anchorage.

R..

Yeah, you really hit it on the head here.

If enough people in Fairbanks start driving Lamborghinis, eventually a dealership or service shop will open there. But don't be surprised if the local market caters primarily to AWD/4WD SUVs and Pickup Trucks until then.

Of course, if you really want to drive a Lamborghini in Fairbanks, you'll figure out how to take care of your own service and maintenance issues, though your ability to drive your Lamborghini with other like minded drivers will likely be limited.

-B

 

[BDSC]

I think you are very right about the what and why others react negatively to my bold assertive statements, but I think you will have a hard time finding statements I have made about local dive scenes other than those I have experience in.

After reading roturners reply I had to go back and read your entire post again to make sure I didn't miss something but I never could see where you made any statement about any other local dive scenes unless he was referring to other possible posts you had made on other threads.

 

[=C=]

My personal anecdotal evidence suggests I would have to agree with your "go deep" hypothesis. Also, the "under rock" (within their first dozen logged dives) theory I think is dependent on your location. People come to the sport because they are innately curious about whats under the water. I think this would lead to a cave investigation if there were caves available. I don't live in a place where caves are easily accessible and doubt any of my students have ever ventured into an overhead environment.

However, based on the conditions you describe there are no Recreational divers trained in Central Europe which is not the case. Shops here don't have AL80, usually sell drysuits and courses, and don't stock full foot fins. The shops I know put out about 6 divers each a month on average. I consider these people new rec divers...

The one hook I see is the rate at which logged dives are accumulated. I dive here roughly once a week (excluding pool and professional activity), one dive doubles BT around an hour. That's ~52 dives a year. I was just in Egypt and I dove 5 dives a day for six days and flew out on the seventh. That's 30 dives or over half my yearly diving in one trip. In Egypt I dove full foot, 3mil short, and an AL 80.

I think the crux of things revolves around the attrition rate of newly trained divers and the ratio of regular/continuous divers to divers who dive only on vacation.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

The one hook I see is the rate at which logged dives are accumulated. I dive here roughly once a week (excluding pool and professional activity), one dive doubles BT around an hour. That's ~52 dives a year. I was just in Egypt and I dove 5 dives a day for six days and flew out on the seventh. That's 30 dives or over half my yearly diving in one trip. In Egypt I dove full foot, 3mil short, and an AL 80.

I think the crux of things revolves around the attrition rate of newly trained divers and the ratio of regular/continuous divers to divers who dive only on vacation.

It would be interesting to know what the average bottom time per dive would be... Our dives are seldom less than an Hour and often closer to two. The only thing that brings our average dive time down to 61 minutes is the dive trips where we are limited.

 

[Lee Taylor]

<- thinking thread should be re-titled to "Behaviors of the Vast Majority"