Questions regarding this forum, and nearby accident

[irishsquid]

So it is your opinion that this forum should only state facts and not opinions?

Nice!

 

[tardmaster]

Gotta love the "official report" on Wes: "yup, we have no idea".

Complete silence from buddies.

No information on gear.

But we should always just wait for all the official facts to come out, because every time a diver dies, a CSI like William Petersen produces a detailed report on the exact chain reaction of events that led to the death, just like on TV...

all within an hour (or least a day !!)

 

[alibi 2]

I agree,,,there are alway,,idiots and those that are not sensitive...but i will tell you what I have learned here , and from the moderators...you should know better,,,get a thicker skin...this is the internet after all and there are idiots..and they will make their posts..that are insensitive and insulting and the mod's here don't do anything to remove these posters...so you got to get over it...I agree with you; its nuts...

that said,,,your buddy should ask for his money back..he had a bad drysuit instructor...and what Ive learned on resuses...do it from your head and not your heart...when you make the decision to rescue you are now 50% likely to die too....so use your head,,,you did a good job monitoring your accent rate...but I hope that if you got into the dangerous zone you would have let him go...better to have one victim and a rescuer on the surface than two victims...

good questions and there is good info here...take what you can use and ignore the rest...

 

[Tricia]

Jim,

I think you should report it. You don't say in your post when this all happened, but it sounds recent. In any event, you can state that you had concerns, but it wasn't until you conferred with more experienced divers (including instructors) that you realised the seriousness of the issue. I don't think PADI will have an issue with that.

And I should add that you did the correct thing in contacting the fire department, given the circumstances.

Trish

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

B) making the victim a secondary victim again by mocking his actions, training or equipment on this forum has no real value at all.

I would point out that such statements often do have value. Not value to the group, as you would wish, but people make them because they may indeed have a peculiar value to them. I suspect that a lot of it is motivated by a deep fear of making the same mistake or taking the same wrong action that promoted a problem into a disaster, and the "value" is that it says the poster wouldn't have gotten into that trouble. And it makes me wonder if that kind of fear isn't going to be a problem when something like that happens to them one day. And it's entirely possible that the victim in the incident would have considered their own actions as dumb, had the same scenario been described to them.

Mock not when someone else is swamped by a wave of dumbass; the wave also lurks for thee.

 

[DevonDiver]

So it is your opinion that this forum should only state facts and not opinions?

Informed opinions.

Informed: Possessing, displaying, or based on reliable information

 

[DevonDiver]

The instructor is only a OWSI for 2 months, and he bought the drysuit as a graduation present for himself. He has very limited drysuit experience himself, and didn't allow my buddy to adjust the valves.

That makes a very strong arguement for the need to pre-interview prospective instructors before selecting them for training.

I have very serious question regarding this instructor!
I have been helping this instructor as a divemaster for 3 dives now and every time we had in my opinion an emergency!

PADI have a stated policy about reporting safety incidents and/or training standards violations. It is likely (in Europe) that local/national legislation also stipulates that such incidents be reported to the authorities (H&S at work regulations).

Bear in mind that failure to adhere to these stipulations could leave you in an unfavourable position, should the incidents ever come to light, and be investigated, in the future.

He asked us to keep the 3 incidents quit from PADI because it would make him in "bad standing".

Regardless of your obligations under PADI standards to report the issue, there is also a strong moral issue about reporting those incidents. If the instructor is that bad, then these issues must be addressed so that further incidents can be avoided.

If you keep silent about these incidents, and someone else gets hurt or killed in the future, then you'll have to live with the knowledge that you could have prevented that, but chose to remain passive.

The scuba diving industry often puts instructors and DMs into personal ethical and moral dilemas, just like this. The decision to take the appropriate and moral action, can often jeapordise your employment. It's a tough call... but I doubt you'd get any criticism from your peers here on SB for doing the right thing.

 

[myscubastory.com]

Yea guess youre right about that. However the problem with some dive accidents is that the diver is found floating at the surface or not found at all. This leads to speculation about what happened between the last buddy contact and the moment that the diver was found or not.

I guess its always better to stay objective about the facts - especially if youre filing a report about a dive related accident that happened on one of your dives.

Regards

 

[Garrobo]

Most of the posting on this forum, except for actual coroner and police reports, reminds me of articles in the the Saturday Enquirer. Too much conjecture and not enough facts.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I find this really odd:

A) diving underwater is diving in a lethal enviroment. As lethal as outer space. Diving seems safe to most people but without this mechanical equipment we die when something goes wrong.

....

IMHO opinion everyone in the diving industry knows diving is a sport that can have lethal consequences. Why would the death of someone screw with people who dive safely? If the people who engage in diving know they participate in a possible lethal sport why would their death "screw"other people over?

Flying is engaging in an activity in an equally lethal enviroment. Nobody has banned flying, or stopped people from flying, or learning to fly.

....

He dragged me to the surface as well but luckely for me i was able to dump all my air and my huge body created so much drag trying to keep him down our ascend speed never reached above the maximum permissable ascend rate.

but we both survived, and learned a lesson.

....


I think it's better that this forum should be almost a clinical enviroment, like a coroner or police report, stating known facts, without drawing any moral conclussions.

just my 2 cents

I find these parts of the OP really odd:

"As lethal as outer space" :shocked2:

Have you seen the video being discussed in this linked thread?

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/364744-human-limits-depth.html

If "we die when something goes wrong" how is it that "we both survived, and learned a lesson?

Since I personally know many decades long members of the diving industry that do not consider diving a sport, "IMHO opinion everyone in the diving industry knows diving is a sport that can have lethal consequences" seems to be a statement that deserves the use of opinion twice.

Really looking forward to you elucidating more on how you come to state "Flying is engaging in an activity in an equally lethal enviroment"

"my huge body" do you have any photo's?

I've stuck to known facts in this post and the OP has nary a hint of clinical information, IMH opinion.