why hate safety devices?

[bletso]

I have no problem with someone who uses audible or visual warnings as a confirmation for what they already know.

The problem is when people become complacent and use the warnings as the signal that it's time to take action. IMO, if you hear the warning, that time has already passed.

Complacency is always a concern and the more automatic stuff the more one tends to depend on them at the expense of more fundamental informational sources.

That is why on our rebreathers we have opted for an alpinist approach, No HUD with lights and buzzers as an example, just a good old fashioned digital display with real numbers. As mentioned by others I could never hear my buzzers but I could hear others!

Dale

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I'd think a HUD on a breather would be much more useful than these other devices we are talking about. Reason being, I'd think the gas mixture in a loop could change faster than something like the pressure in your tanks. Something simple like the LED on a Meg comes in real handy to alert the person to look at their HUD to figure out what's up.

The problem with electronic buzzers, aside from the fact that sometimes you can't hear them, or distinguish your own, is that they don't let you know when they've failed. You could run out of air and have no warning because your buzzer ran out of batteries, or something. Because you are expecting to hear the buzzer, you don't look at your guage.

If you have the proper mindset, and look at your guages, then I don't really care if you have a buzzer, but I do find it somewhat unnecessary. I think eventually if they perfect the technology, we'll see people diving two AI computers that are both wireless, and both computers will buzz or alert you once you hit thirds. If you have two AI computers, I don't see that huge of a problem leaving out the traditional SPG. However, I can see this being an issue as divers will say "sure the battery in one computer is low but I have two so, no worries, right?" No matter what people dive with, if they don't have the right mindset, they'll get themselves in trouble.


For a while, my computer was freaking out about me changing depths so often, as the battery wore down apparently it got more sensitive or something. I almost threw the whole thing in the trash after one dive when it beeped and flashed every few seconds throughout the entire dive... glad that changing the battery fixed it. I had enough beeping on that one dive to last me the rest of my life!

 

[Paladin]

"...who the hell wants to go back to J-valves?" Whaddya mean, "go back?" Some of us never stopped using the trusty ole J valve. They still work great with our double hose regulators!

 

[BoltSnap]

I have been using AI since 1987 and have gone through lots of them since then. I haven't had any major problems with them for a very long time. I am always open minded to new ideas, technology, etc. but I use common sense and take responsibility for my safety. I am fully cognizant of the limitation of technology especially as related to human physiology. No mathematical model can fully simulate the human physiology.

I set different alarms on my AI but I use them only as one part of several parts of my safety planning not as my entire safety plan.

Again, I do my best to be open minded about new products and technology but I try to differentiate between a gimmick and true innovation.

 

[Atom]

Why do some scuba divers hate some scuba innovations that can give rise to a higher degree of safety?

Example: the air-integrated computer with audible warning when you pass your user-determined "reserve gas" pressure.

Disclaimer: I own one.

The air integration on a wrist unit is a nice thing to have for rec diving, one quick look at it and you get all the info you need (tank pressure, depth, no dec time, estimated air time), I love it. But you still need a backup gauge in case it doesn't sync. If you have a hood you probably won't hear the alarm, and otherwise it's really annoying for everybody else since every time your hear one beeping you'll check to make sure it's not yours.

And even if you're the only buddy team at the site and even if the alarm was guaranteed to be perfectly audible (and cancellable by acknowledging it) you still need to set it to a proper value. The default is around 700PSI/50bar, which may be fine for some dives, but inadequate for other ones. Knowing when to leave should be part of the plan, and monitoring your air consumption during the dive to make the right decisions is essential, so the question is... why would you need the alarm?

I don't like them much because they can lead to bad habits in divers and because they're so annoyingly beepy when people misuse them.them.

 

[Crush]

I'd like to take this opportunity to invite the majority of those who posted in this thread to re-read the OP. This isn't about relying upon an audible warning, or supplanting training with hardware and software.

Many posters have made their biases very clear. Few of those have addressed the OP.

 

[TSandM]

No, I think quite a few people have addressed the original post.

The difference between scuba and flying is that pilots are taught what they need to know, to avoid ever hearing the warning buzzers in the plane. By the time the stall warning horn goes off, you know darned well you're about to stall.

Divers frequently AREN'T taught the things they need to know to avoid hearing the alarms on their gauges, and by the time they do, often the harm has been done. They're at depth with inadequate gas, or they've already ascended too fast.

I have no problems at all with alarms in equipment, but people should be trained such that they will never hear them. And when they do, they should already have recognized that there is an issue -- so what did the alarm accomplish, again?

 

[aquaregia]

Why do some scuba divers hate some scuba innovations that can give rise to a higher degree of safety?

I like all innovations that give rise to a higher degree of safety. I believe the majority of divers feel the same.

Example: the air-integrated computer with audible warning when you pass your user-determined "reserve gas" pressure.

I do not believe that this is an example of an innovation that gives rise to a higher degree of safety.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm not the most worldly diver, holed up here in NS most of the time, with a few divers I know, but I can't say that I've really noticed people hating or loving innovations. Most just seem to be interested in the dive of the day.

 

[Crush]

Part of the OP:

Of course you should manage your gas. Of course your buddy should be near at hand. Of course you should learn to use your computer. Of course you should learn to dive without a computer. But why do some hate computers, or at least a perceived over-reliance on them in this case?

My later comment:

I'd like to take this opportunity to invite the majority of those who posted in this thread to re-read the OP. This isn't about relying upon an audible warning, or supplanting training with hardware and software.

Many posters have made their biases very clear. Few of those have addressed the OP.

A response:

No, I think quite a few people have addressed the original post.

TSandM, most posters have bemoaned over-reliance on audible signals (for example) while I clearly tried to steer the thread away from this mindset. How could I have been clearer that this:

Of course you should learn to dive without a computer.

I maintain that if many posters have read the OP, they have then not understood it.