Spare Air - Sorry!

[Blackwood]

Blackwood

rather it be back mounted or sling on the side - in respect to my palm and 5 digits - with either way - both my hand are free.

what I was trying to say was that with the pony in sling mode. while I am stringing a fish or loading the gun (center access). the pony always gets in the way of my arm's reach. I just rather have the pony on my back and totally out of the way.

Interesting. Even with both a 40 and an 80 slung to one side I don't feel that use of my hands is encumbered. I suspect 2x 80s would net the same result.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yep, I manage to use my hands quite freely when carrying slung cylinders. The fact that they are slung tends to leave my hands free

I've had 2x AL80s slung, with doubles on my back, and still managed to lay line for penetration, signal, use my torch, tie knots, take photos etc etc

I assume the same is true for divers who use side-mount systems also...

 

[Kingpatzer]

Why do you want a spare air?

Is it because your sac rate is so bad that you can't come close to the NDL's without risking an OOA situation?

Then there are two problems you can address: your sac rate is fixable as is your lack of attentiveness to your air. Both of those will go much further to making your dive more enjoyable than a spare air, and they cost less too.

Is it becuase you don't trust your buddy to be there if you don't need it? Then you need to work on your buddy skills with your buddy. And again, that costs less than a spare air.

I can think of no justification for a spare air. I really can't. Sure it's small and easy to transport and all that -- but I can think of no scuba problem it solves well. Or even adequately.

 

[RalphPorter]

Why do you want a spare air?

Is it because your sac rate is so bad that you can't come close to the NDL's without risking an OOA situation?

Then there are two problems you can address: your sac rate is fixable as is your lack of attentiveness to your air. Both of those will go much further to making your dive more enjoyable than a spare air, and they cost less too.

Is it becuase you don't trust your buddy to be there if you don't need it? Then you need to work on your buddy skills with your buddy. And again, that costs less than a spare air.

I can think of no justification for a spare air. I really can't. Sure it's small and easy to transport and all that -- but I can think of no scuba problem it solves well. Or even adequately.

Well I've not analysed my SAC rate to that extent but on a typical reef dive say 15 to 18m outbound usually planned 10 - 12m return we'd generally do a 50-60 minute dive and always on the surface with 50+ bar - as I say I dive with my wife (exclusively so far) and we regularly practice our buddy skills albeit only in the pool admmitedly. My thoughts are best summed up by the term "Belt and Braces" I guess, do I get nervous about diving - yes I/we do, I assume most divers share some anxiety! So beyond all the given good practices what other little things can you do that add any degree of safety but don't impact too much the pleasure of the activity itself. I gather certainly from this thread that the predominant opinion is that the Spare Air doesn't add any degree of safety whatsoever.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Ralph,

As you can see, there are a lot of divers that detest the spare air. This question gets raised often by newish divers concerned about running out of air and the repeating nature of the question and strong opinions often generate rude answers.

It is true that spare air and pony bottles are both often technical solutions for poor training, poor diving skills and sometimes unfounded fear. Not always, but fairly common and you will get the argument constantly.

The spare air concept is an air-supply so small (4-10x smaller than typical pony bottles) that is simply does not make sense as a redundant air supply. If you frame it as a small redundant air supply - it fails.

I have seen rational arguments that the spare-air can be views as a CESA assist device and I personally tend to agree that it its proper use. However, to me CESA is pretty much a last resort, a "Hail Mary" after you have failed to execute your dive in a safe manner. I would rather invest in something that has a better plan than CESA assist.

I came to the decision that with my regular dive buddies on moderate dives, I don't need redundant air. We are generally close, trust each other and know how to read our air supply. The odds of a sudden loss of air happening at the same time we somehow get separated are literally a million to one.

That of course changes when I dive solo, instant buddy or deep/cold, but in these cases the SA is not the tool as I need a lot more air than it can offer.

 

[DevonDiver]

There was talk at one time (years ago) of making Pony bottles mandatory in the UK. Like many good ideas, it turned into nothing...

 

[String]

There was talk at one time (years ago) of making Pony bottles mandatory in the UK. Like many good ideas, it turned into nothing...

Well if you're teaching commercially (ie padi or anything except bsac through a club) they are mandatory. The instructor MUST have a redundant air supply be that a pony or a twinset. Thats the Health and Safety rules.
Not mandatory for the students though.

Ponys are "OK" provided people use them properly but i see way too many people jump in on a ridiculous dive feeling "safe" because they have a pony without having done a single gas calculation. If the **** hit the fan they'd run out of gas in that pony long before hitting the surface.

 

[DevonDiver]

Well if you're teaching commercially (ie padi or anything except bsac through a club) they are mandatory. The instructor MUST have a redundant air supply be that a pony or a twinset. Thats the Health and Safety rules.
Not mandatory for the students though.

It's been a while since I taught in the UK... but I thought 'redundant air source' included the use of an assistant. The assistant has to be Rescue Diver (or equiv) and above. A DMT fits that role nicely... providing emergency cover for the instructor (but not responsible for the students).

Basically, the instructor must not be reliant on air-sharing from their students.

Ponys are "OK" provided people use them properly but i see way too many people jump in on a ridiculous dive feeling "safe" because they have a pony without having done a single gas calculation. If the **** hit the fan they'd run out of gas in that pony long before hitting the surface.

I know of at least one fatality (Plymouth, UK) a few years ago, that was directly attributable to the incorrect procedural use of a pony cylinder.

Spare Air is the worst for creating a false sense of security. When I was in Thailand, the ocean was full of solo videographers with little yellow Barbie tanks. They spend their time galavanting around by themselves at 30m+, completely task orientated on their filming, regularly red-lining their SPG....and often heard to say "It's okay...I have an emergency bottle".

 

[MichiganScott]

Wow! A spare air post without the You will die if you dive with one, i'm impressed.
Obviously this isn't my post but I'd like to say thank you to everyone who has posted friendly replys, as is so often not the case when this particular subject comes up; and specifically thank Andy for all of his useful and logical comments.

 

[irishsquid]

Wow! A spare air post without the You will die if you dive with one, i'm impressed.
Obviously this isn't my post but I'd like to say thank you to everyone who has posted friendly replys, as is so often not the case when this particular subject comes up; and specifically thank Andy for all of his useful and logical comments.

Well said! I'm with you on that. I actually mentioned that in my initial post, sort of as a heads up to the OP.

Hello Ralph, Welcome to ScubaBoard! You probably will get many thoughts here on this subject, ranging from use the search function to "You'll die". Spare Air brings out the beast in alot of folks. ...