We all started out as O/W students

[irishsquid]

Just remember, it's a 2-way street....being "older" does not always equate to senility either.
Being a new diver in my 50's brings me in contact with many young people who feel the need to treat me like an idiot when it comes to technology.
As an example....the fact that I actually prefer analog gauges to go with my digital dive computer does not in fact prove that I am "slow".
Phil

Yep! To the OP, it won't get better as you get older. Then you are just one of the old fogeys that all the young whipper snappers ignore.

Oh I don't think he was rude at all... he was being 'protective' (not the best word but all I can think of) rather than condescending so I did not push the matter.

Sometimes, however, it would be nice to be trusted when you say you can do something But I don't get upset if this does not occur.

Nice observation and attitude on your part.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim,

You missed the point. I loved that picture. You were HAPPY and obviously,having fun. Who really cares about your shirt, except for a small minded person. The outside rarely indicates what's on the inside.

I'll put the pic back up later but my point in changing it was to show that as a professional I care very much about first impressions. That your son would see it the way you stated is not the image I would want to project as an instructor.

As a diver who cares? But when you are dealing with the public first impressions for the most part are everything. They can mean the difference between a sale or no sale. I am happy in that pic and on the dive boat it is appropriate attire. But in the shop behind the counter- never. At the pool during training sessions- no.

The OP was asking why she seems to not be taken seriously by some. Anytime I ever asked myself that question a trip to the mirror was all the answer I needed. But I have found in dealing with many professionals outside of diving that the outside- at least when it comes to attire (physical attributes are not wholly under our control) it does reflect what the person thinks of themself and the people they will be dealing with.

I have a book coming out. I want the photo of myself in it ( if I decide to put one in) to reflect the respect I have for myself and the profound respect I have for my readers. A suit and tie is over the top, but the tank top photo is not appropriate at all to me. I saw in my own son how little young people think of their appearance- until he went to basic. When he graduated from Lackland and we went downtown into San Antonio the difference in the way he was treated compared to the way others his age not in the miltary with hats on sideways and pants around their ankles made a profound impression on him. He does dress down but he still has that air about him that projects and at the same time commands respect. Every kid should feel what he felt when a woman in her 70's insisted she hold the door for him. Then maybe they'd understand my position. And the pride I have for kids who understand the lesson.

 

[Doc Harry]

So why the need to have such cocky attitudes?

Some people do things because they enjoy it.

Some people do things for bragging rights.

Everyone has some degree of mental illness in them. There's a spectrum in everyone. Those who do things for bragging rights have more of the spectrum of personality disorder than those who don't. Those with personality disorders have a disorder of self-esteem and require positive external reinforement to feel good about themselves.

 

[CamG]

Greetings MClark12 and it has been interesting to follow your thread.
I do have a question just how old are you? I am guessing 16-19?

As Pete has described I am sure that you are more than adequate for dive shop assistance and answering questions.
You may even know more than the owner because you are there everyday!
Why am I bringing this up?
Well lets just say I knew a young lady who worked at a DS and she lived with the same persona!

When I was at the shop people would ask me questions about gear instead of going to her.
She was trying to finish her OW but could not get the time off to do so!
I was shocked and quickly learned many things that have since lead to the taking my business else where.
She was young, female, very professional, and to ACCOMODATING!

I understand the persona what you speak but the world we live in as others have mentioned is far from perfect.
I will ask you one time if you wish to have assistance with your gear in a respectful way. I do this because;
a. My mother raised me right!
b. My Instructor taught me correctly as a DMC.
c. Not because I want a date. (married happily)
d. I love diving and helping others enjoy it.

My advice which is my opinion only, you do what you want with it!
1. Stop letting this bother you but overcome it with superior attitude!
2. Have the owners put a certificate of employment for two years. (you can print one off the internet)
3. Dive as much as you can! People will see you out there and this persona will disappear!

If it is any consolation Lyne TSandM is a outstanding doctor and she has to live with this as well!
I have hope that one day it will improve but on the other side, I hope being a gentleman does not get sacrificed for this change.
I will forever be who I am and if I upset you for offering assistance I am sorry!
I have dove with many females and only a few demanded to not allow me to assist.
A handful of them needed to get to know me only for a short while then it was ok!
THERE ARE STILL GOOD GUYS OUT THERE!
If only all motive were pure I would not have to teach my daughter to be so guarded!

CamG Keep diving....keep training....Keep learning!

 

[tddfleming]

I believe that what Jax said is true, you will find this in every place in one form or another. I am in my 40's and I am still called "kido" by some of my customers. Some about my age and others older. I have my own business and it is pretty much a male dominated business, but seeing more and more skirts coming in. The way that I have dealt with the disrespect is if you treat me bad don't expect much from me. And yes, I am in a service business, but I don't have to take being mistreated. I also don't back down very easy. As far as dress, I think that some if not most of the dress and professional is gone and the way people view it from days past. I dress to relate to my customers. I don't dress above them and I don't dress below them. I fit in. I do think that some of what we all see is how these people were taught through their up bringing. In my family, if I wanted my front teeth in place, I did not disrespect anyone. Disrespect was one of the more serious offenses. To this day, I still live by what I was taught.

As for the workplace, I get them also, some days better than others. The ones that know me and trust me, bring me their most expensive high end race car parts and I do what I do and they know that I will do it right for them. They do not question my price or how I will go about packing and shipping the heads, rocker arms or what have you. However, the worst of the offenders, we go rounds when they come in. Sometimes, they come around and learn to respect what I have to say some don't. Some even to this day, come in and say something like, you should ask the boss man, meaning my husband. Then I have to bust their bubble and inform them I am the boss man. I have even had one old man come in and while I was helping him with his box and packing it for him ( I work on the floor, as I am of the shorter type) another guy walks in and the old guy I was helping, turns to the younger guy and says, "I have her down on her knees." As he is laughing, he thought it was funny. I ignored this comment and the younger guy did also. However, I would not ignore it again, next time I would just hand him his box and show him the front door.

As far as diving goes, and you can see I have not had much experience with this. Got OW cert. in late Sept and have gotten in 14 dives since. Season is over with for me here, too cold. But when I go out to the quarry, and every time other than during class time, was just me and my daughter, we did not see this. Actually we have been shown a lot of respect. Being invited to others tarps to help us fit in. People helping us while trying to get ready. At one point, we could not get her Henderson insta dry glove on, we were in the water and for the life of us could not get the damn thing one. We were laughing hard over this, and out of no where, some guy laughing because he was watching us came to help. Same thing when we did the DUI dog days, a couple of guys helped her get fins on with the rock boots. My daughter and I tend to laugh a lot and laugh a lot at ourselves. But we have been in diving stores where we have seen what you are referring to. Those people just think too much of themselves and need a reality check.

 

[The Chairman]

I'll put the pic back up later but my point in changing it was to show that as a professional I care very much about first impressions. That your son would see it the way you stated is not the image I would want to project as an instructor.

Your smile in the first picture makes that picture far more professional than your current one. You went from a "I am having the time of my life" smile to a rather befuddled look. People come to our sport for FUN and FRIVOLITY. Personally, I like to see that mentality projected by our "professionals". We lose diver wannabes every day through intimidation. Guys carrying 50 tanks with a grim look of determination on a dive appeals to very, very few prospective dive students. If we want to get the industry from tanking, we have to promote the FUN of diving. Being safe is FUN. OK, back to the real topic at hand.

The OP was asking why she seems to not be taken seriously by some.

Read it again, she is a confident outgoing young lady. She is lamenting chauvinism and prejudice based on people making snap judgments based on little else than her being young and female. Someone made the comment about how few dives she has for as long as she has worked in the dive shop. The previous manager discouraged her from diving. Apparently, he has some serious biases about women and diving. I understand that since she got her last manager, she has made close to 30 dives and tripled her certs (Since March/Feb). Why? Someone looked PAST the stereotype and into Mercy's eyes. Yay Elena!

One last thing about pictures. I went diving with H Kelly Levendorf a few years ago. He had been trying to get me on his boat for a while, and this was it. When we got up from the first dive, his comment was "Wow! You dive just like your avatar!" Apparently, he was expecting more frivolity from NetDoc. I kinda feel that I let him down! Was I having fun? You betcha, but I did a piss poor job of showing it!

Take a look at this montage/ad I did for our "Invade Cozumel" trip coming up.

:coz:​

The picture of the guy who is upside down and acting silly was by one of the MOST respected divers on this forum.

Spoiler

Uncle Pug :shocked2:

Here he is looking coy next to his anemone (He's always taught us to love our anemones )

Let's promote Scuba as THE most fun life style you can choose. Funny hats/sandals/masks etc are all welcome. No, not everyone needs to be a clown, but we all need to lighten up, Francis. BTW, while we're at it... let's leave our prejudices and biases behind.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

You know I am sure a lot wont like this answer but from what I have observed the worst people (divers) I see in shops and dive boats are other DM"s and Instructors as well as cave and tech divers. It seems the more "education" one has the less tolerant they are to other divers.

WTF makes you better then me?????? You were once an OW student but now O my god roll out the red carpet we have a tech diver coming through.

 

[Slamfire]

I think some divers actually believe they came out of their mother's womb wearing scuba gear and 1000 dives under their belt.

What! But I was submersed in fluid for nine months. Don't it count for tethered diving? 9 X 30 = 270. 4 dives a day will put me over the 1000 dive mark. 1000 is really a conservative estimate.

I think this has been touched on already, but with you being a woman, I'm sure a lot of it is guys trying to impress you...

I was reading this thinking that for some people this behaviour is probably the equivalent to the elementary school pulling-the-hair-of-the-girl-you-like thing. For some strange reason the girl on the receiving end doesn't seem to appreciate the very clear manifestation of admiration.

I am with Mercy here, Jim. You are really showing you snap-judge a book by its cover.

I'll snap judge to say that I much rather like looking at Jax's avatar than Jim's (old or new). It just makes me want to go pinch things.

 

[DevonDiver]

You know I am sure a lot wont like this answer but from what I have observed the worst people (divers) I see in shops and dive boats are other DM"s and Instructors as well as cave and tech divers. It seems the more "education" one has the less tolerant they are to other divers.

WTF makes you better then me?????? You were once an OW student but now O my god roll out the red carpet we have a tech diver coming through.

I was once a dribbling, mud-eating infant also. Does that mean I should show equal respect to a toddler, in terms of experience, education and ability?

What do you mean by "less tolerant"? Less tolerant of what??

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'll snap judge to say that I much rather like looking at Jax's avatar than Jim's (old or new). It just makes me want to go pinch things.

... it makes me want to engage her in conversation so she'll keep posting ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)