dive buddy got bent

[Couv]

You made to the ER, right? What else is DAN supposed to do? Your expectation seems unrealistic. ....

From DAN'S web site:

DAN's medical staff or Regional Coordinator may ask you to wait by the phone while they make arrangements. (underline and bold by me)

The way it's advertized and the way Farsidefan1 got taken care of:

"They helped me figure out what was going on, gave me the address of the doc and chamber and alerted him I was on my way "

That's what we expect. But in the OP's case, clearly DAN dropped the ball.

How/why the OP's GF got bent is another subject.

c

 

[Hetland]

Ummm Didn't the patient walk out of the ER without treatment?

If the symptoms were so mild they were not willing to wait on a doc, then how could they also be so severe that they should have been bumped to the front of the line? You can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, this is a triage/ER matter. An insurance company (DAN) is not going to be able to bump you to the front of the line. It is your SYMPTOMS that determine how quickly you are treated in an ER setting.

Here is an example of DAN in action:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html

The difference is that Denise's symptoms were much more severe, and she got to a doc much faster.

 

[jhelmuth]

From DAN'S web site:

DAN's medical staff or Regional Coordinator may ask you to wait by the phone while they make arrangements. (underline and bold by me)

The way it's advertized and the way Farsidefan1 got taken care of:

"They helped me figure out what was going on, gave me the address of the doc and chamber and alerted him I was on my way "

That's what we expect. But in the OP's case, clearly DAN dropped the ball.

How/why the OP's GF got bent is another subject.

c

First of all DAN is a not-for-profit 501(C)(3) organization that provides emergency medical advice and assistance for underwater diving injuries, and underwrites a wide range of research, education and training programs that promote safe diving.

DAN does offer (thru a private insurance company) coverage for many aspects of dive and dive related mishaps - with Medical coverage being the most recognized and utilized.

I'd like to see where you found this quote on their website. I went there, logged in and I cannot find it - please provide us with a link. In any case, the arrangements that they make are for transportation and anything else required to get you to a local treatment facility. At that point, DAN can (and will) work with and assist in anyway they can with the facility and medical staff at the treatment center. DAN cannot do anything more than that since the medical staff/facility where the injured is treated is very likley NOT a part of Duke university Medical Center or in anyway facilited by Duke University Medical Center (or maybe you can explain how they can).

Herre is an EXACT except from their website (unedited)...

[From DAN.org]


When you call the DAN Emergency Hotline:

Depending on what time of day you call, the number +1-919-684-9111 may be answered at the switchboard of Duke University Medical Center. Tell the operator you have a diving emergency. The operator will either connect you directly with DAN or have someone call you back at the earliest possible moment.
DAN's medical staff may make an immediate recommendation or call you back after making arrangements with a local physician or the DAN Regional Coordinator. DAN Regional Coordinators are familiar with chamber facilities in their area, and because they're qualified in diving medicine, they can make recommendations about treatment.
DAN's medical staff or Regional Coordinator may ask you to wait by the phone while they make arrangements. These plans may take 30 minutes or longer, as several phone calls may be required. This delay should not place the diver in any greater danger. However, if the situation is life-threatening, arrange to transport the diver immediately to the nearest local medical facility for immediate stabilization and assessment of his or her condition. Call DAN at this time for consultation with the local medical provider.


...again - please explain how DAN dropped the ball? What obligation (moral or otherwise) did they not fulfil?

 

[jhelmuth]

Ummm Didn't the patient walk out of the ER without treatment?

If the symptoms were so mild they were not willing to wait on a doc, then how could they also be so severe that they should have been bumped to the front of the line? You can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, this is a triage/ER matter. An insurance company (DAN) is not going to be able to bump you to the front of the line. It is your SYMPTOMS that determine how quickly you are treated in an ER setting.

Here is an example of DAN in action:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html

The difference is that Denise's symptoms were much more severe, and she got to a doc much faster.

 

[SkimFisher]

I think your analogy is flawed, so I'll fix it for you.

I drive a Ferrari (I dive), and although there are a lot of great mechanics (doctors) out there, they don't all have experience with Ferraris (dive medicine). Since I like to drive around to places where there might not be a Ferrari specialist (dive in places where I don't know there's a great dive doc on call), I have signed a contract with Ferrari (DAN) to have a specialist at the ready in case I need assistance. While I don't expect Ferrari's mechanic (DAN's dive doc) to fix me directly, I do expect that they can consult with the mechanics (ER staff) I end up with to ensure they understand the unique issues associated with working on a Ferrari (dive medicine). In that way, I hope to get the best diagnosis and care for my car (body) so that nothing is overlooked resulting in a breakdown (I don't end up dead or crippled). I'd hate to have some little knocking noise (DCS symptom controlled by O2) that seems trivial to a mechanic without Ferrari training (doc without dive expertise) pushed aside when it could be a symptom of a serious issue needing prompt attention.

If the mechanic (ER guys) won't take the consult from the expert (DAN docs), especially when I've told them I have them available on call, then they are being negligent and I've probably ended up at the wrong shop (hospital). Since I paid Ferrari (DAN) a fair chunk of change, and I've heard nothing but praise for how invested they are in helping customers in need at every opportunity, I expect that they will at least try to intercede on my behalf.

==

Simply put, if this is the way that DAN works, that's fine with me. Of course, everyone, especially the people who are paying them money, should know exactly what they are paying for. No one should be disappointed by the level of service received as the OP is. No one posting on this thread should be surprised that DAN acted as they did, but some people are. If this thread serves to clarify what DAN will or won't do and sets peoples' expectation correctly, that's a good thing.

It's only flawed if you're twisting the logic around so that it works in your favor. Which makes it relative - much like the OP's expectation.

Either way, I don't care. Dead horse. Moving on. I've never understood DAN's obligation to be as such. Hetlund hit the nail on the head.

 

[SkimFisher]

Ummm Didn't the patient walk out of the ER without treatment?

If the symptoms were so mild they were not willing to wait on a doc, then how could they also be so severe that they should have been bumped to the front of the line? You can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, this is a triage/ER matter. An insurance company (DAN) is not going to be able to bump you to the front of the line. It is your SYMPTOMS that determine how quickly you are treated in an ER setting.

Here is an example of DAN in action:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...eniseggs-incident-near-miss-jackson-blue.html

The difference is that Denise's symptoms were much more severe, and she got to a doc much faster.

Sounds a lot like TRIAGE

 

[bsee65]

It's only flawed if you're twisting the logic around so that it works in your favor. Which makes it relative - much like the OP's expectation.

Either way, I don't care. Dead horse. Moving on. I've never understood DAN's obligation to be as such. Hetlund hit the nail on the head.

Sorry, if anything is twisted, it was your analogy to suggest that the OP was off base because he expected a DAN doctor to treat him over the phone. Not the case. If you're going to take him to task for unreasonable expectations, at least accurately represent his position.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I would also ask if the OP specifically asked the ER staff to contact DAN and if they did so. If not, why not? DAN will try to assist in making arrangements when necessary. The OP had GF on 02, transported her to ER, and contacted ER personnel. Er personnel hopefully evaluated her and at this point should have at the patient's insistence contacted DAN for consult. Instead they walked out after deciding for themselves that she was ok. Where did DAN drop the ball? There is also a clear demonstration of poor planning and dive practices on the part of the OP and GF. This more than anything would appear to be the root cause of this entire incident.

 

[Leejnd]

How do these discussions get so twisted up?

Without addressing the off-topic issue of how the gf got bent, or (worse) try to equate medical care to auto mechanics (!!), let's just look at what the OP expected DAN would provide, and didn't.

He expected that they would proactively contact someone OTHER than them, someone in the medical profession, on their behalf, to ensure that they were seen by someone with some basic information about DCS. This didn't happen. All DAN did was talk to them personally, and give them names and phone numbers. Is that what we're paying for? I hope not, because if that's all they offer - advice on the phone to ME only - that's not worth my money, IMO.

I cannot understand why DAN said they can't call doctors on the patient's behalf:

I made a call to DAN after approx every hr of wait time in the ER. I also tried to contact the MDs DAN had told us about and was shut down by there answering service. One of them was on call but they do not page them for patients. It has to be at the request of someone higher up the food chain than us. I asked DAN to call them on my behalf but they stated they could not. If those doctors were aware of our presence in the ER i will never know.

Why couldn't they? It sounds like they've done it for others...why not for this patient? It sounds like it could have been all that was necessary to get this patient seen by someone other than triage nurses with no knowledge of dive medicine.

I am eager to hear from someone from DAN. I too would like to understand what exactly I'm getting for my DAN insurance, because if this incident is an indication, it doesn't appear to be what their website or contract states. I don't want to rush to judgment - I'd like to hear the facts.

 

[Couv]

First of all DAN is a not-for-profit 501(C)(3) organization that provides emergency medical advice and assistance for underwater diving injuries, and underwrites a wide range of research, education and training programs that promote safe diving.

DAN does offer (thru a private insurance company) coverage for many aspects of dive and dive related mishaps - with Medical coverage being the most recognized and utilized.

I'd like to see where you found this quote on their website. I went there, logged in and I cannot find it - please provide us with a link. In any case, the arrangements that they make are for transportation and anything else required to get you to a local treatment facility. At that point, DAN can (and will) work with and assist in anyway they can with the facility and medical staff at the treatment center. DAN cannot do anything more than that since the medical staff/facility where the injured is treated is very likley NOT a part of Duke university Medical Center or in anyway facilited by Duke University Medical Center (or maybe you can explain how they can).

Herre is an EXACT except from their website (unedited)...

[From DAN.org]


When you call the DAN Emergency Hotline:

Depending on what time of day you call, the number +1-919-684-9111 may be answered at the switchboard of Duke University Medical Center. Tell the operator you have a diving emergency. The operator will either connect you directly with DAN or have someone call you back at the earliest possible moment.
DAN's medical staff may make an immediate recommendation or call you back after making arrangements with a local physician or the DAN Regional Coordinator. DAN Regional Coordinators are familiar with chamber facilities in their area, and because they're qualified in diving medicine, they can make recommendations about treatment.
DAN's medical staff or Regional Coordinator may ask you to wait by the phone while they make arrangements. These plans may take 30 minutes or longer, as several phone calls may be required. This delay should not place the diver in any greater danger. However, if the situation is life-threatening, arrange to transport the diver immediately to the nearest local medical facility for immediate stabilization and assessment of his or her condition. Call DAN at this time for consultation with the local medical provider.


...again - please explain how DAN dropped the ball? What obligation (moral or otherwise) did they not fulfil?

WOW,

No reason to get your knickers in a twist young fellow. You and I just have different points of view on what we pay DAN insurance premiums for. As far as providing you the link, if you read the quote YOU posted very carefully, you'll see that it is contained within.

Not for profit has nothing to do with it; you advertize a product, you are expected to deliver it.

Try to stay pleasant,

Couv