UTD vs. GUE

[rjack321]

Slightly dated thread here, but you're on the right track Mr. Green

SeaJay who is my mentor...

 

[TSandM]

The GUE Rec 3 class does seem like a good intermediate option. When I took Rec Triox (the predecessor class) it was a no-deco class, and didn't even involve carrying a bottle. There was no easy transition from Fundies to Tech 1 in those days.

 

[rjack321]

The GUE Rec 3 class does seem like a good intermediate option. When I took Rec Triox (the predecessor class) it was a no-deco class, and didn't even involve carrying a bottle. There was no easy transition from Fundies to Tech 1 in those days.

Ack maybe in some GUE land it is.

In the UTD scheme of things GUE's Rec3 is completely bogus. Entirely wrong mixes and setup for that kinda of dive/duration. The proper transition between uncertified and technical diver for UTD is something like:
Rec1
Rec2
Fundementals of Tech or possibly UTD Rec3 in doubles with stage mini on the side at a different time (these exact steps depend on the student & instructor working together)
UTD Tech1
UTD Tech2

 

[lamont]

In the UTD scheme of things GUE's Rec3 is completely bogus.

And UTD is entirely flawless and the definition of all things right and just.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Ack maybe in some GUE land it is.

In the UTD scheme of things GUE's Rec3 is completely bogus. Entirely wrong mixes and setup for that kinda of dive/duration. The proper transition between uncertified and technical diver for UTD is something like:
Rec1
Rec2
Fundementals of Tech or possibly UTD Rec3 in doubles with stage mini on the side at a different time (these exact steps depend on the student & instructor working together)
UTD Tech1
UTD Tech2

How is this better than the GUE system? I am not defending the GUE system (honestly I have no way to know which is better), but you make a claim and then do not defend it with points of argument. Please clarify; it will help me decide which agency I should pursue post fundies.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I have to say that as I look forward at my goals in training, this recreational progression seems to be the bee's knees for me. Allows me to use better gas mixtures first with no deco, then with some deco training. Will give me the extra time and safety at traditional rec depths while incrementally increasing my training in preparation for more hardcore tech training in a year or two. I am excited about seeing how the new Rec 2 class turns out (since I think it is under revision now).

GUE has the upcoming rec 2 (triox) and already available rec 3 (trimix) courses as intermediary from fundamentals to the tech program.

the triox step has been around for 4 or 5? years, as my buddy Lamont took it some time ago.

the following is from their site.

GUE’s Recreational Diver level 2 course is a no-decompression class structured to prepare divers for
deeper recreational diving using proper equipment, diving techniques, and breathing mixtures. In this class,
students will be introduced to the theory and practice of decompression and schooled in correct ascent
procedures. GUE’s Recreational Diver level 2 training focuses on expanding the fundamental skills learned
in GUE’s Recreational Diver level 1 course and/or the GUE Fundamentals course (or elsewhere), and is
designed to cultivate, integrate, and expand the essential skills required for safe deeper diving. This will
include problem identification and resolution, and building the capacity for progressively more challenging
diving. In this class, students will be trained in: a) the use of single or double back gas tanks/cylinders, and
in the potential failure problems associated with them; b) the use of Nitrox and Triox for extended bottom
times; and c) the use of Helium to minimize narcosis, CO2, gas density, and post-dive “nitrogen stress.”



The GUE Recreational Diver level 3 course is a minimum decompression class structured to prepare divers
for deeper recreational diving using proper equipment, diving techniques and breathing mixtures. In this
class, students will be introduced to the theory and practice of decompression and trained in correct ascent
procedures. Recreational Diver level 3 training builds on the fundamental skills learned in previous GUE
Recreational courses (GUE Fundamentals, Level 1 and Diver level 2) and is designed to cultivate the
essential skills required for safe diving at greater depths. The training will include problem identification
and resolution as a means of building capacity for progressively more challenging dives. In this class,
students will be trained in: a) the use of double, back-gas tanks/cylinders as well as the problem resolution
skills required for safe doubles diving; b) the use of Nitrox for decompression; c) the use of Helium to
minimize narcosis, CO2, gas density, and post-dive “nitrogen stress”; and d) the use of a single
decompression cylinder for stage decompression techniques.



for more detailed information, link to their standards...

http://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE_Standards_Version_51.pdf

 

[rhlee]

I would not want to speak for UTD, but this post will hopefully shed some light on the reasoning, rationale, and positioning of the GUE R3 class:

GUE Forums

For the local conditions where I am, I think that this is a great way to explore the many sites that we have within this range of diving.

How is this better than the GUE system? I am not defending the GUE system (honestly I have no way to know which is better), but you make a claim and then do not defend it with points of argument. Please clarify; it will help me decide which agency I should pursue post fundies.

 

[TSandM]

Richard, I agree that the choice of 32% as a deco gas still seems a bit wonky, but other than that, I don't think the class is crazy. The difference between 25/25 and 21/35 as a bottom gas in that range really isn't that big, except that 21/35 has a more reasonable amount of helium in it. And learning to carry and deploy a deco bottle before one's tech class isn't out of line, either, and one can't get into too much trouble in the depth ranges discussed with 32% in the bottle.

I think you have to make a whole set of decisions in designing a class like this. Andrew made some for his T1 class, and GUE made a different set for the R3 class. Neither class is really expected to be the final training the diver takes, I don't think.

 

[Peter Guy]

Or how about NOT taking any class but, to the contrary, hire an instructor to give YOU the lessons YOU need for what type of diving YOU are going to be doing? Would it not be a better solution to just tailor the training to the individual rather than seeing which round hole this square peg best fits?

 

[Scott L]

Or how about NOT taking any class but, to the contrary, hire an instructor to give YOU the lessons YOU need for what type of diving YOU are going to be doing? Would it not be a better solution to just tailor the training to the individual rather than seeing which round hole this square peg best fits?

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