UTD vs. GUE

[iztok]

Please don't want to bash any other agency (esp. since GUE doesn't have forum here). They both do DIR style of training and diving.

I am trying to figure out which one to go with but I don't seem to understand the differences. Any help appreciated.

 

[Rainer]

Anything more specific you'd like to know about the two agencies?

Both teach DIR diving. Here are the courses each offers:
Classes - Unified Team Diving
GUE Course Descriptions | Global Underwater Explorers

The individual classes vary. The structure of each might fit different divers better or worse.

Both agencies have some very excellent instructors and courses.

As far as obvious differences, GUE is clearly the more established agency, but UTD certainly has some quality people and programs. GUE is a non-profit, UTD is for-profit. There is a much larger global GUE community than UTD community, but each generally teaches dive practices that shouldn't make diving with those trained by the other agency much of an issue. GUE has more instructors, but UTD is adding instructors very quickly (while hopefully maintaining its high initial quality).

Really, it's a bit hard to compare the agencies broadly. If you have specific questions about certain courses, procedural differences, instructors, etc, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[iztok]

Well (for now I hope this will change) I have a big "no overhead" moratorium from my wife (well she tolerates my diving so I am not complaining about this restriction so far). So no true cave/wreck penetration dives for me at this point.

I am a rec diver (PADI MSD but will hopefully do my DM this year) that wants to learn more and improve diving technique and experience. I also want to be able to do some technical dives that are beyond NDL.

Not knowing much about either agencies I was contemplating to either do UTD Intro to Tech or GUE Fundamentals to start with.

I know that might be too broad still, sorry

 

[Sloth]

Totally speaking out of my butt (as usual) but I doubt there is little difference from UTD intro and GUE fundies at a rec pass level.

I know they diverge at the "tech" level but I dont know if you would know enough to decide on the abitrary differences from one or the other.

Personally I'd say look at who is closer; UTD instructors/divers or GUE instructors/divers and go from there. Personally I dont think you can go wrong with one over the other.

 

[AndyNZ]

Not knowing much about either agencies I was contemplating to either do UTD Intro to Tech or GUE Fundamentals to start with.

I would hazard a guess that the biggest decision factor will actually be the logistics of organising the class - deciding whether you travel, or the instructor travels or whether you have an instructor of either agency in your area.

If you do have an instructor for either agency near you, first call would be to talk to them - if they inspire you with confidence, then your decision is made.

 

[Rainer]

For those wanting an introduction to the skills and gear used in DIR diving, UTD offers Essentials and GUE has its Primer course. Both would be a good starting point for those with a passing curiosity of DIR (or its skill set), but not wanting too much of a heavy dose concerning team diving or a heavy emphasis on situational awareness.

For the recreational diver who is looking for a solid introduction to DIR, plus a nitrox certification, UTD Rec 2 and GUE Fundamentals both offer a good foundation.

For those considering a transition to "technical" diving (i.e. >NDL, >130'), UTD Intro to Tech or GUE Fundamentals (with tech endorsement) would be good options. They cover roughly the same skill set. The UTD class has you carrying a deco bottle for practice, but I don't think it's necessary (we lugged an AL40 around for only two weekends before doing T1, it wasn't an issue). GUE is stated as max 4:1 student to instructor ratio, while UTD is 6:1. Fundamentals is a prerequisite for any further GUE training, while UTD has no such limitations (meaning you could take UTD Tech 1 having done GUE Fundamentals, but you can't do GUE Tech 1 having done UTD Intro to Tech).

Because of this last point, it might be worth figuring out if GUE Tech 1 or UTD Tech 1 is a more likely goal.

Other huge factors that might play a role in your decision include: do you have a local GUE or UTD instructor, are there any local GUE or UTD trained divers, and will you be traveling to areas with GUE or UTD divers.

 

[iztok]

None of the agencies have local instructors or divers. (Charlotte, NC)

Travel will be involved either for me or instructor. Right now I don't find much interest from other divers here.

As far as travel to areas... I travel for work to various places (rather random) so I can't base it on that either.

 

[Rainer]

Here are where instructors are based:
GUE Instructors | Global Underwater Explorers
UTD Instructors - Unified Team Diving

Looks like 10-11 GUE instructors on the East Coast (plus one more in Kentucky which is nearby) and no UTD instructors (yet). Still, as you note, no instructors *in* NC for either agency.

I am pretty sure there are some GUE trained divers in NC on this board (you might want to take a look through the DIR forum), so perhaps get in touch with them about who they did their training with.

The course fees are likely to be similar for each class, and I can't imagine the travel fees are going to be too different.

Again, for me, it'd really come down to with which agency/instructor I saw myself doing my Tech 1 class. If you *were* also considering a cave class, I think that'd also play a large role in my decision, but you stated that's not something you intend to do.

 

[iztok]

Thanks for the info!

Still undecided but talking to one GUE and one UTD instructor to see what will come out. I think both will be a viable option for me.

 

[Peter Guy]

As someone who has taken (and passed) a GUE course (DIR-F) and been involved with several others as a spouse (DIR-F, RecTriox, Cave 1 and Cave 2) -- and someone who has taken (and passed) the precursor courses to UTD (I took Essentials, Rec 2 from 5th DX and Rec 3 directly from AG) and also been involved with them as a spouse (Rec 2, Rec 3 and UTD Tec 1), I think I have a pretty good background to be able to talk about them.

The difference? From a skills POV, honestly, not much difference (which shouldn't be surprising given the people involved). HOWEVER, IF you want to get into Cave Diving, you are probably better off going with GUE -- that is unless you are willing to get your foundational skills from either GUE or UTD and the Cave specific skills from a non-GUE/UTD Cave instructor.

My view -- Andrew has done a pretty good job of making the UTD classes a bit more "reasonable" in terms of the skill set to be learned.