Diver Dies in Lake Huron on the Dunderberg

[DandyDon]

But if I'm ever in that situation, I wonder how many people would find fault if I choose not to risk it? It's easy to be dismissive when it's not your butt on the line.

Really! I'm surprised at the criticisms since we certainly only have some info from questionable news sources. The surviving diver operating in a narced and emergency situation did find the unresponsive diver and get him up to the surface close enough for those on the boat to see him, pull him aboard, and initiate rescue attempts. But here we have the damned if you do damned if you don't court?

Jeeze, all too often in life we have only an instant to react and we do our best. How long do you want to stop and think when you find your buddy seemingly dead at 140 feet? You give your best shot and I'll applaud you, either decision. :medal:

DCS can sometimes be cured, it is treatable, but with only two on the boat - how many emergencies you want to have to rescue, treat, send in, one or two?

Now, if anyone wants to discuss prevention of similar accidents, this is the forum for offering those suggestions and I'm eager to see them. The surviving diver has enough to deal with as it is without keyboard quarterbacks jumping his ass here.

 

[Jax]

I dont think any assumptions are going to really be helpful in discussing the current incident, and we should stick to the facts as they are known.

I do not agree that sending someone up to the surface is the right thing to do assuming that you just saw them alive a few mins ago, and I wouldn't dive with someone that had that attitude.

For me, especially from that depth, reg in or out isn't going to make much of a difference.

And which book says that ?

While the first rule of rescue says don't make two victims from one, DCS you can generally recover from. Drowning not so much. You have no way to really know if this person can be saved (unless they have been without a reg/gas for a long time and you know that for sure).

Mokry, Joe. SDI Rescue Diving Manual, International Training, Inc. Page 110, 'call-out box':

Unconsiousness underwater may be due to several factors: . . . Our single most important objective is to return an unconscious diver to the surface as rapidly as possible. (emphasis mine)

Ibid. Page 175, Picture captions (summerize the text):

Position the vicitm so you can hold the regulator in their mouth If the regulator was out of the mouth, do not attempt to replace it.

Bring the diver to the surface as rapidly as possible, but keep in mind your own safety. Depth and / or bottom time may not permit you to ascent quickly. In this case, you may need to let the victim go and recover him again on the surface. (emphasis mine)

From what we know so far, it sounds like the buddy did everything he was supposed to do.

 

[Belmont]

A few years ago a similar incident happened at Flintkote Quarry in Quebec.
Two divers at 130', one has problems and thumbs the dive, they both start going up. The one with issues looses consciousness and falls back. His buddy keeps on going up.

A lot of controversy was generated, should he have turned back and inflated his buddy's BC?

Would inflating his BC have helped?

One thing certain, it was impossible to revive him when recovery divers brought him up after a few hours under.

 

[limeyx]

Mokry, Joe. SDI Rescue Diving Manual, International Training, Inc. Page 110, 'call-out box':


Ibid. Page 175, Picture captions (summerize the text):


From what we know so far, it sounds like the buddy did everything he was supposed to do.

Have you actually taken that class or just quoting from the manual. If you have taken it, I recommend asking for your money back.

Yes, the priority is to ascend the victim as fast as SAFELY possible. That does NOT mean inflating their BC on the bottom and hoping they dont pop their lungs and/or drown on the surface.

AGAIN since we DONT KNOW what happened here, we dont know if everything was done properly or not.

Yes, in an absolute "it's my life or theirs" situation you may have to send someone to the surface, but simply dealing with a victim at 140 feet isn't that situation.

 

[limeyx]

A few years ago a similar incident happened at Flintkote Quarry in Quebec.
Two divers at 130', one has problems and thumbs the dive, they both start going up. The one with issues looses consciousness and falls back. His buddy keeps on going up.

A lot of controversy was generated, should he have turned back and inflated his buddy's BC?

Would inflating his BC have helped?

One thing certain, it was impossible to revive him when recovery divers brought him up after a few hours under.

Well, thats why you dont rescue a diver like that. Deflate your BC, use the victims BC for buoyancy for both.

That way if you have to let go, you can just inflate your BC and be fine, and at least the victim is not buoyant and on the surface (yes, far from ideal but better than having them sink)

 

[Jax]

Have you actually taken that class or just quoting from the manual. If you have taken it, I recommend asking for your money back.

Yes, the priority is to ascend the victim as fast as SAFELY possible. That does NOT mean inflating their BC on the bottom and hoping they dont pop their lungs and/or drown on the surface.

AGAIN since we DONT KNOW what happened here, we dont know if everything was done properly or not.

Yes, in an absolute "it's my life or theirs" situation you may have to send someone to the surface, but simply dealing with a victim at 140 feet isn't that situation.

And you say this based on what source?

 

[Rainer]

Just curious what kind of decompression training you've had. What kind of detail was omitted deco given?

Also, what agency's rescue training did you receive where it was taught to go around shooting unconscious divers to the surface (I mean apart from one sentence you read in a book, of course)?

Thanks for the clarification. Just trying to understand your perspective here. It's certainly anathema to how I was taught and how those I dive with think.

And you say this based on what source?

 

[Jax]

First, please understand I do not want to get into an argument here - I truly want to understand why "y'all" think the buddy did the wrong thing.

1. Diver is unconscious underwater . . . Pretty P-poor outlook already.
2. I (assuming the place of the dive buddy) have incurred a [serious?] deco obligation.
3. I know the two divers are already "up".
4. I assume I will execute my part of the CPR taking the victim in.
5. An unconscious diver cannot hold his or her breath. Expanding gas will vent unless the head is locked forward somehow.

So, if I 'escort' this victim to the surface, and decide to take the DCI hit, so then I am possibly paralyzed or in so much pain I am worthless and another victim . . .

How is that the 'right' thing to do? Please help me understand why that would be a better course of action?

 

[BoneCrusher]

Here is the latest news report on the incident...

Diver’s gear checks out
Published: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:53 AM EDT
By STACY LANGLEY
Tribune Staff Writer

HURON COUNTY —It’s going to take the toxicology report to help investigators determine what caused the death of a 46-year-old Munger man who was diving a shipwreck with friends Sunday near Harbor Beach.

Monday’s preliminary autopsy results and results from an inspection of the dive equipment used by Daniel M. Kleinert have revealed very little to help police determine what went wrong.

“The equipment was taken by our office for inspection to the Great Lakes Dive Center in Shelby Township,” said Huron County Sheriff Kelly J. Hanson. “Findings of that inspection revealed no apparent malfunctions. Samples of tank contents have been taken and have been sent out for analysis. It is unknown how long it could take to get the results back. It doesn’t appear at this time that he had an equipment malfunction. We’ve been able to recover the records indicating the depth he traveled to, the time (he spent) on the bottom and his stops.”

*
Hanson said Kleinert’s death is still under investigation and he hopes the toxicology reports, which are expected to take several weeks to complete, will shed more light on the matter.

“The toxicology report will tell us a lot more, like if we can rule out a heart attack, things like that,” he said.

Kleinert was scuba diving Sunday morning with friends about 6 1/2 miles northeast of Harbor Beach when fellow diver Keith Jones noticed Kleinert became unresponsive.

Kleinert was diving with Jones about 140 feet in the water on the shipwrecked schooner called the Dunderburgh, which sank in 1868.

Police report two other divers with Kleinert were still on the boat preparing to go under, when Jones sensed Kleinert was having trouble.

Preliminary investigation by police has revealed Jones inflated Kleinert’s buoyancy control vest, which raised him to the surface. Kleinert was then noticed floating on the surface of the water by his two friends on the boat at about 11:25 a.m. Sunday. The U.S. Coast Guard from the Harbor Beach station was radioed for help by the friends.

Hanson said the two friends attempted to revive Kleinert at the scene while they waited for the Coast Guard to arrive. Kleinert was transported by the Coast Guard to Harbor Beach, where the Eastern Huron Ambulance Service was waiting. Kleinert was pronounced dead at the Harbor Beach Hospital a short time later.

 

[Jax]

Just curious what kind of decompression training you've had. What kind of detail was omitted deco given?

Also, what agency's rescue training did you receive where it was taught to go around shooting unconscious divers to the surface (I mean apart from one sentence you read in a book, of course)?

Thanks for the clarification. Just trying to understand your perspective here. It's certainly anathema to how I was taught and how those I dive with think.

I would appreciate knowing how your agency teaches . . . As I mentioned before, my training is SDI.