Going from BP-wing to Jacket BCD ...

[Sas]

If one follows the conversation, the reason is pretty obvious.

Yea fair enough. My point still stands though, most people don't say it is the best system for everyone

Our perceptions are vastly different; you hate vest BC's and I hate ignorance. :mooner:

I hate ignorance also. Hating vest BCs and ignorance is not mutually exclusive.

I gave the BP/W crowd the benefit of doubt by implying that there could be benefits, just not significant ones. Compared to dry suit steel doubles stage cave diving, the benefits of BP/W over vest BC in warm water single aluminum vacation diving are not significant and that is not opinion. That is relevant for the vast majority of divers world wide, who are making warm water single aluminum vacation dives.

I don't know how you can say that given the vast majority of divers world wide do not have exposure to BP/Ws. Basically you'd need to give people both and see what they prefer before making a statement like this.

You've tried a BP/W a few times with cold and warm water diving? I presumed so, but this comment "I gave the BP/W crowd the benefit of doubt by implying that there could be benefits, just not significant ones. " confused me in that regard.

 

[TechBlue]

All you need to do is look at how a BCD sags on a divers back out of the water, in the water BCD's have a tendency to lift away from the diver when inflated if you change positions in the water you have this same floaty effect a BCD just does not keep your cylinder as close and tight to your body as a BP when used with a crotch strap a BP provides a 5 point contact to hold the cylinder on your back in the same position regardless of the divers position in the water column. A BP also allows me to dive with exactly the same configuration regardless of weather I am using a single cylinder, doubles or a rebreather, everything stays the same in the same place exactly where I need it to be, nothing extra. The same thing regarding weight distribution you can use SS plates with add on weights if you choose, aluminium, or kydex.

I have shown some of the benefits of using a BP/wing what do you have to back up your opinion other than "more people use BCD's therefore they are better" Let me add another, less drag which does decrease air consumption.

Dive whatever you want, the primary reason for diving is fun and enjoyment. If you are happy with your BCD that is fine and switching to a BP is not likely to wave a wand and make you a better diver but like it or not a BP wing setup is a superior piece of kit

People should dive what they are comfortable with, the fact that new divers and particularly your students are not given all the options perpetuates your ignorant opinions.

I guess you didn't follow the inane consistency of me referring back to mattboy's post without quoting it.

I guess you can't see that just because a BP/W is the preferred BC for technical diving does not automatically mean it is the best BC for every dive and every diver.

You were responding to my post and did not indicate that you were referring to mattboy's post.

Again I never said it was for every diver only that it was superior kit

I don't see many people saying it either, and I also don't hear many people saying it. Perhaps that's because a silly debate like this mostly only happens on internet boards dominated by vocal BP/W users and in regions/circles where BP/W use does offer significant benefits.

Since a BP/W does not offer significant benefits for the vast majority of diving, both here and in most dive destinations, we have different silly debates (integrated weights, split's and airII's).

Please tell me what makes a BP/wing setup better for any particular region or circle and why it is so specific. You don't bring anything to debate you make unfounded blanket statements and wander all over the place. So in this one area you are correct your debates are silly and senseless.

Oh my, that would be like some DM telling you that vest BC's were not designed by divers for diving. :shocked2:

I would happily dive with mattboy, in your case I would call the dive everytime

If one follows the conversation, the reason is pretty obvious.

Our perceptions are vastly different; you hate vest BC's and I hate ignorance. :mooner:

I gave the BP/W crowd the benefit of doubt by implying that there could be benefits, just not significant ones. Compared to dry suit steel doubles stage cave diving, the benefits of BP/W over vest BC in warm water single aluminum vacation diving are not significant and that is not opinion. That is relevant for the vast majority of divers world wide, who are making warm water single aluminum vacation dives.[/QUOTE]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion but at some point you need to back your statements up with fact, constantly saying "everybody" and the "vast majority of divers" doesn't cut it. As a good friend said "many more people drive Toyotas, does that make them superior to Bentleys?" Please back your statement up with factual information seeing as this is not your opinion.

I'll make the question easy for you to understand, please describe the benefits of a BCD over a BP/wing for a warm water diver using an aluminium 80

 

[senseiern]

What makes you think a BP/W is going to make you float horizontally, face down, on the surface? Mine certainly don't.

Seeing as how you have not tried one, and are still in your OW class, I'm not sure how you would have the knowledge that a BP/W forces you face down at the surface. Or did your instructor tell you that?

One book, in arms reach..."The Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving" (c) 2005, page 3-39. Refers to system BCDs. I says that they are favored by tech divers, but points out that they tend to keep the diver face down.

I have read the same thing from several sources.

Although I do not have experience, I have access to many divers who do have it, and I rely on their advice. I will adjust those sources information as I experience diving for myself. I am totally open to trying new things and then making the judgement based on that experience. Having knowledge prior to trying new things will prepare me for the experience.

 

[TechBlue]

One book, in arms reach..."The Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving" (c) 2005, page 3-39. Refers to system BCDs. I says that they are favored by tech divers, but points out that they tend to keep the diver face down.

I have read the same thing from several sources.

Although I do not have experience, I have access to many divers who do have it, and I rely on their advice. I will adjust those sources information as I experience diving for myself. I am totally open to trying new things and then making the judgement based on that experience. Having knowledge prior to trying new things will prepare me for the experience.

You are taking the right approach, do your research take it slow, keep an open mind. A lot of the advice you get here could help you avoid buying gear that you may regret..or not I believe that the encylopedia may be referring to an unconscious diver as a backmount wing does not keep you face down at the surface.

Ultimately it is your choice but you should try a few different configurations before you buy. It is a little early for you to know exactly where you plan to go with your diving but the ideal is to chose equipment that will grow with you.

 

[RJP]

A BP/Wing is great but adjusting, etc. is too much to ask of a new diver...I don't care the following posters say...

Yeah, loosening or shortening two straps and one buckle...

...is so much more complicated than 7 straps, 6 clips, and 4 buckles...

If you can put a belt on your pants without assistance, you can adjust a BP/W.

 

[Scott L]

Yeah, loosening or shortening two straps and one buckle...

...is so much more complicated than 7 straps, 6 clips, and 4 buckles...

If you can put a belt on your pants without assistance, you can adjust a BP/W.

I am sure the bottom device looks more like your first BCD instead of the former rig. I still stand by my recomendation of a DR Transpac for the average diver. A fit fellow or tone female with high ambitions, yeah, put them in a BP/Wing...

 

[Sas]

I am sure the bottom device looks more like your first BCD instead of the former rig. I still stand by my recomendation of a DR Transpac for the average diver. A fit fellow or tone female with high ambitions, yeah, put them in a BP/Wing...

Yea I know lots of people happy with their Transpacs. I tried one out but did not like it myself. I still think people should try things out first, but often Transpacs are overlooked with possibilities of BCDs.

 

[Scott L]

Yea I know lots of people happy with their Transpacs. I tried one out but did not like it myself. I still think people should try things out first, but often Transpacs are overlooked with possibilities of BCDs.

That we can agree on. They have been excluded from much conversation on the subject...

 

[RJP]

I am sure the bottom device looks more like your first BCD instead of the former rig.

Don't be so sure...

:cool2:

 

[RJP]

I am sure the bottom device looks more like your first BCD instead of the former rig. I still stand by my recomendation of a DR Transpac for the average diver. A fit fellow or tone female with high ambitions, yeah, put them in a BP/Wing...

Transpac better than standard BCD for sure.

Why does one need to be fit or toned to be in a BP/W?