Vinegar to clean regs?

[Stone]

This has been covered before, but the information is still useful.

The outside of a 1st stage has a substantial amount of chrome. The inside of the 1st stage has much less chrome (and this is where the action is).

I would rather use more elbow grease and less acid bath just to be on the safe side.

P.S. I use a 50/50 mix of warm water and 5% white vinegar in a small ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes.

 

[jewie27]

Why can' t you just RINSE YOUR GEAR WITH FRESH WATER AFTER EVERY DIVE? It will prevent salt buildup.

 

[Mac99]

Why can' t you just RINSE YOUR GEAR WITH FRESH WATER AFTER EVERY DIVE? It will prevent salt buildup.

This sounds like the best advise to me..

What you can clean your regs with really depends upon what they are made from..
Most regs are made from brass (an alloy of zinc and copper mainly) with a chrome plating.
Chrome is largly chemically resistant, though it is listed as soluble in halogen acids, (i.e. hydrochloric acid) and as reactive with sulphuric acid. It should not be exposed to bases (alkalis) or peroxides.
Info from http://www.intox.org/databank/documents/chemical/chromium/cie547.htm
Copper is very unreactive but zinc is not.
Zinc will react with acids such as hydrochloric acid to form zinc chloride, which is the very corrosion you wish to clean off corroded regs.

The whole purpose of the acid bath is to dissolve any metal salts which may have formed due to corrosion of the zinc in the alloy, but over do it and you will effectively corrode your reg further!
Reaction rate of the metal depends upon the concentration and type of acid used (i.e the pH of the solution) and the temperature of the acid bath.

Vinegar is a weak acid where the protons do not all dissociate, and is in my mind far more suitable than say HCl, which will lead to chloride ions penetrating into the metal, which increaces corrosion rates, despite the fact that some manufactures recommend its use. Chloride ion incursion is responsible for the "brown staining" you see on stainless steel parts at the swimming pool for instance, usually near welds, and it can increase corrosion in steel by something stupid like 400 times!
Non metal parts should not be exposed to acids, bases or solvents as this is likely to weaken them.

On neutralization, baking soda solution followed by repeated fresh water rinsing should do the trick fine, or just the fresh water rinses. Strong bases such as sodium hydroxide should never ever be used!
On isopropy alcohol (propan-2-ol), I wouldn't use it. It has a tendency to form peroxides, unless stabalized, and brass is very very reactive to peroxides. It is not an alkali anyway so it does not neutralize acid, just raises the pH towards neutral by diluting the acid concentration. It will also damage some plastic parts.

If you own an aluminum reg it is protected by a layer of aluminum oxide, this must be kept away from a large number of things including strong acids/bases, halocarbons, (i.e dichlormethane, chloroform 1,1,1 trichlorethane and many other halocarbons found in degreasing agents) and acetone (nail varnish remover). Most of these will happily remove the anodised layer of aluminium oxide and ruin your reg.

Substances like sand need to be removed physically, sand is chemically inert, it doesn't react or dissolve in anything but hydrofluoric acid, which is so strong it would dissolve most of your reg anyhow!

Hope this provides some useful info

Sholto

 

[DA Aquamaster]

This has been covered before, but the information is still useful.

The outside of a 1st stage has a substantial amount of chrome. The inside of the 1st stage has much less chrome (and this is where the action is).

I would rather use more elbow grease and less acid bath just to be on the safe side.

P.S. I use a 50/50 mix of warm water and 5% white vinegar in a small ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes.

Vinegar is usually around 8% acetic acid and cutting it 50/50 gives you about a 4% soulution. 3% to 4% is ideal as is a 5 minute soak. Any more than that and you risk removing the chrome regardless of the acid used.

I normally use muratic acid mixed with water to give a 4% acid solution. It is clean and fresh smelling and does a good job of cleaning mineral deposits.

With the use of any acid including vinegar, you need to follow up with a soda bath to neutralize the acids. A 5 minute soak in a solution of 2 tables spoons of baking soda per quart of water works well. Most of the crud also bubbles off when the parts are placed in the soda bath whihc is always fun to watch. You really should use a basket to move the parts from the acid bath to the soda bath and then to the hot water rinse to prevent you from touching the acid or losing any small parts along the way.

Acids can be used on the plastic parts but it is normally not required unless the reg is in a really bad way. And then, keep the dip times short.

You also want to be careful with teflon coated springs and lever. I normally skip the acid bath with them and under no circumstances do you want to put them in an ultrasonic cleaner as it will remove the teflon coating.

 

[Longhorn]

"I normally use muratic acid mixed with water to give a 4% acid solution. It is clean and fresh smelling and does a good job of cleaning mineral deposits."

Isn't Muratic acid the indiustrial term for hydrochloric acid (HCl)?

 

[Mac99]

"I normally use muratic acid mixed with water to give a 4% acid solution. It is clean and fresh smelling and does a good job of cleaning mineral deposits."

Isn't Muratic acid the indiustrial term for hydrochloric acid (HCl)?

Yeah muriatic acid is the "common" name for HCl, it is a strong mineral acid, which fully dissociates. It shouldn't be sniffed really as it is actually quite toxic, it inhibits respiration in the same way as cyanide, though this isn't usually a problem in low concentrations!

The problem with using strong acids is that they can be slowly dissolving away metal parts but you wont notice at first, each time takes a little more material away. Incidently teflon is fantastically chemically inert and doesn't react with anything it is less reactive than glass! This said, I still wouldn't put any teflon coated parts in the acid bath as teflon is softish and if there are any holes in it it will let the acid reach the part below..

 

[Pimbura]

I got a friend who told me he uses vinegar mixed with some water to spray on his regs after he breaks them down to clean them. Anyone ever heard of this method? He said that the vinegar eats up all the crud and the salt and sand stuck in the regs.

Simple Green is a de-lubricant and will break down and emulsify hydrocarbons. It is a favorite for oxygen cleaning. It is also corrosive. The US Military has now banned its use on aircraft because of its propensity to dissolve metal (especially aluminum). That being said, when / if you use it, flush with plenty of fresh water and you will be fine. Just limit the exposure. After I flush with fresh water, I soak the reg parts in distilled water for a few hours before blowing dry. I use a LITTLE simple green in water in my ultrasonic cleaner. I only resort to a vinegar water solution when surface corrosion exists that wasn't removed by the simple green / water cleaning. Joy dish washing liquid has been proven to dissolve and emulsify salt in a water solution. Many / most other brands will not do this. Joy works great for a good cleaning without a teardown and it won't harm your gear. Bill Childers.

 

[CALI68]

They are disassembled and allowed to soak/ cook for about thirty minutes. Then rinse in fresh water and blow dry with clean air.




It depends on how much diving you do. If you dive more than 75 times a year I recommend breaking them down cleaning and lubricating every six months. Less than that have them serviced once a year and overhauled every two.

Hallmac

A tad off the subject but since Simple Green was asked about, here is another great use: When you go to put your gloves on before your second dive spray a 50/50 mixture on your hands and your gloves will slide right on. Works great with Gold Core stuff especially.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yeah muriatic acid is the "common" name for HCl, it is a strong mineral acid, which fully dissociates. It shouldn't be sniffed really as it is actually quite toxic, it inhibits respiration in the same way as cyanide, though this isn't usually a problem in low concentrations!

The problem with using strong acids is that they can be slowly dissolving away metal parts but you wont notice at first, each time takes a little more material away. Incidently teflon is fantastically chemically inert and doesn't react with anything it is less reactive than glass! This said, I still wouldn't put any teflon coated parts in the acid bath as teflon is softish and if there are any holes in it it will let the acid reach the part below..

Muratic acid is normally about 30-31% HCL. I would personally be very impressed with anyone who could inhale HCL at that concentration for any lenght of time and survive.

Inhaling ANY concentrated acid, including acetic acid, can cause coughing, choking, inflammation of the upper respiratory tract, and pulmonary edema, circulatory failure, and death. Acids essentially damage your lungs and prompt the production of large amounts of mucus and fluids in the lungs that then prevent the transfer of oxygen to the blood stream.

But having said that HCL is required in your stomach and digestive tract for protein absorbtion. It is also required to separate iron from foods and generally serves to keep the stomach sterile and control bacterial growth in the upper and lower intestines.

Cyanide uses a different mechanisim to kill you. Cyanide exposure through the respiratory system is potentially deadly as hemoglobin has a higher affinity for cyanide than it does for oxygen and you suffocate because your blood lacks sufficient free hemoglobin to supply you with adequate oxygen. Exposure to cyanide at levels of around 100 ppm can cause death in this manner in 30 to 60 minutes. That said, small amounts of cyanide in the form of vitamin B12 are actually needed to prevent anemia.

Oddly enough and in contrast to cyanide and HCL, people do not require acetic acid for any biological purpose and can survive quite nicely without it.

For scuba reg cleaning purposes we are talking 3 to 4% solutions of HCL. At that level, HCL does not fume and presents no appreciable inhalation risk - far less than that posed by a good burp after dinner.

Theoretically you are correct as many metals are soluable in concentrated HCL. But the solubility of zinc and other metals in HCL is completely dependent on PH. For our purposes with HCL at the concentrations in question and with the short soaking periods used, it just is not an issue from a practical standpoint as long as a soda bath is used after the acid bath.

 

[Mac99]

Cyanide uses a different mechanisim to kill you. Cyanide exposure through the respiratory system is potentially deadly as hemoglobin has a higher affinity for cyanide than it does for oxygen and you suffocate because your blood lacks sufficient free hemoglobin to supply you with adequate oxygen. Exposure to cyanide at levels of around 100 ppm can cause death in this manner in 30 to 60 minutes. That said, small amounts of cyanide in the form of vitamin B12 are actually needed to prevent anemia.

I know this isn't really the place for a discussion on toxicology, but that said, a major factor in the toxicity of cyanide is due to its decoupling of the electron transport chain inhibiting the process of oxidative phosphorylation by binding to cytochrome oxidase.
Essentially this means that although the cells are getting oxygen, they can't use it to manufacture ATP in the mitochondria. ATP is the energy molecule and without its regeneration we quickly die as nerves, muscles and other essential things like active transport enzymes cannot work. You could give as much O2 as you like to the cell and it would not be able to utalize it.

As to reactivity of metals, I am only a humble chemist, seeking to offer an informed opinion. Having worked with metalurgists involved in preventing corrosion in nuclear installations I know how I would like to treat my regs!
What you choose to do is entirely up to you..