Split fin kick style?

[FIXXERVI6]

crap how did I let myself get sucked into this

I'm sorry, the fins are great don't listen to anyone on the internet go buy what you want to buy and have fun.

g'night all

 

[pjones]

The video is the third of three videos posted by "Dave", post # 13 in the thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/fins-masks-snorkels/322716-split-fin-vs-straight-fin.html

Interesting to see him have such trouble preforming a back kick in the Twin Jets (first video). I would be curious to see a Split Fin fan do a similar video to create a comparison. It did look almost like there was a bit of exaggeration as he was bumping into the wall but I take it that he is a fan of the paddles. I figure there will be some bias that would come through no matter who makes the video which is why it would be nice to have a response from the other side.

I know there are many split fin users on board here that mention about different technique that must be used or they won't preform as they are supposed to and I would sure like to see a second opinion from one of them. I'm pretty sure my instructor was doing back kicks just fine and she had the Twin Jets on at that time. This wasn't my area of focus during that course so I didn't pay too close attention to her back kick during that time. I'll keep my eye out though the next time I dive with her. Any experienced split fin users willing to make a video?

 

[fnfalman]

I know there are many split fin users on board here that mention about different technique that must be used or they won't preform as they are supposed to and I would sure like to see a second opinion from one of them. I'm pretty sure my instructor was doing back kicks just fine and she had the Twin Jets on at that time. This wasn't my area of focus during that course so I didn't pay too close attention to her back kick during that time. I'll keep my eye out though the next time I dive with her. Any experienced split fin users willing to make a video?

If somebody's in the Bakersfield, California area and has an underwater video, I'd more than glad to demonstrate some split fin kicking techniques. Granted, I haven't tried the back kick yet, but there is no problem with frog kicking (though God knows why you need to frog kick with a split fine) or helicopter turn.

Usually it's the poor diver who blames his/her equipment for his/her own failure to perform.

 

[Sas]

(though God knows why you need to frog kick with a split fine) or helicopter turn.

To not make a huge mess?? Frog kicking is a good skill for any diver to have, unless they are content with staying far off the bottom. And helicopter kick enables one to turn around without flapping their hands around. Pretty good skills for anyone to have.

I can do any kind of kick in split fins, other than back kick (which I can do in paddle fins). I am interested to see someone do this properly in splits myself. I am not saying it can't be done, just that I have never seen it.

 

[fnfalman]

To not make a huge mess?? Frog kicking is a good skill for any diver to have, unless they are content with staying far off the bottom. And helicopter kick enables one to turn around without flapping their hands around. Pretty good skills for anyone to have.

I can do any kind of kick in split fins, other than back kick (which I can do in paddle fins). I am interested to see someone do this properly in splits myself. I am not saying it can't be done, just that I have never seen it.

You don't need to do frog kick with split fins because it works extremely well with the ankle flick flutter kick. All you have to do is raise your calves up ala frog kick style but instead of frog kicking, you use your ankle to flutter kick. I do believe that there are paddle fin people that use the same technique to prevent silting. Do it right and it doesn't kick up any silt. If you want to do frog kick with split fins then by all means, it works with frog kick but I see no need for it.

BTW, you quoted me out of context to make it sound as though I said helicopter turn kicks are not relevant or essential. Helicopter turn is as essential for paddle fins as for split fins, and the technique is exactly the same with either type of fins.

 

[RJP]

split fins...work extremely well with ankle flick flutter kick. All you do is raise your calves up ala frog kick style...Do it right and it doesn't kick up any silt.

As long as your assumption that "silt is only located on the bottom" is actually valid where you're diving. Otherwise this kick does an excellent job of kicking silt DOWN from anyplace ABOVE your fins - whatever fin you're wearing.

 

[Belce]

Best kick with a split fin is within your forward profile flutter kick, if you could fit a tube over your head and shoulders, back and chest, kicking within that tube is best.

I have done more than a few dives with people using paddle flippers instead of split fins and when we are close to the bottom and they don't use less efficient frog kicks they kick up way more stuff than a proper use of split fins. Key point is proper, I have encountered a few flipper users that say that I should use my split fins more like flippers instead of fins and it isn't best fin practice.

People that like flippers as opposed to split fins are stuck in a rut and will want to sell you flat earth memberships as well.

 

[Sas]

You don't need to do frog kick with split fins because it works extremely well with the ankle flick flutter kick. All you have to do is raise your calves up ala frog kick style but instead of frog kicking, you use your ankle to flutter kick. I do believe that there are paddle fin people that use the same technique to prevent silting. Do it right and it doesn't kick up any silt. If you want to do frog kick with split fins then by all means, it works with frog kick but I see no need for it.

Doesn't work as well as frog kick.

BTW, you quoted me out of context to make it sound as though I said helicopter turn kicks are not relevant or essential. Helicopter turn is as essential for paddle fins as for split fins, and the technique is exactly the same with either type of fins.

Helicopter turns are much easier in paddles is my point. Paddles are better for more precise manouvering. And I have no idea why one would never have tried back kicking in their own fins. That is another important finning style.

 

[TSandM]

First off, you can do any kick in split fins, including back kicking. I think it might be quite difficult to LEARN some of the kicks in splits, but I have done a dive in splits after I learned the kicks, and they are all possible. They feel funny, and the back kick isn't as efficient, but they're doable.

Second, if you are swimming into current, the frog kick is an awful kick. This is not me speaking; this is David Rhea, who is one of the most experienced cave divers there is, and who dives extensively in Florida caves where you work against strong flow. The frog kick's central characteristic is a glide phase. Using a kick with a glide phase against water flowing toward you is less effective, because during that phase, you are slowing down or even moving backwards. The flutter kick provides propulsive force all the time, and works much better in current or flow.

If you look at paddle fins versus splits, one of the big differences is stiffness. As you move your foot through the down or upstroke of a flutter kick, the stiff fins will continue to "bite" the water and provide propulsion. However, splits will flex, and once they have flexed maximally, they provide no further resistance to the water, and therefore no further forward force. So the leg excursion which is creating propulsive force is shorter, and the frequency has to be higher, in split fins. The effort expended by your muscles per stroke is lower, but the number of strokes required to cover a given distance is greater.

 

[Mike Boswell]

First off, you can do any kick in split fins, including back kicking. I think it might be quite difficult to LEARN some of the kicks in splits, but I have done a dive in splits after I learned the kicks, and they are all possible. They feel funny, and the back kick isn't as efficient, but they're doable.

Second, if you are swimming into current, the frog kick is an awful kick. This is not me speaking; this is David Rhea, who is one of the most experienced cave divers there is, and who dives extensively in Florida caves where you work against strong flow. The frog kick's central characteristic is a glide phase. Using a kick with a glide phase against water flowing toward you is less effective, because during that phase, you are slowing down or even moving backwards. The flutter kick provides propulsive force all the time, and works much better in current or flow.

If you look at paddle fins versus splits, one of the big differences is stiffness. As you move your foot through the down or upstroke of a flutter kick, the stiff fins will continue to "bite" the water and provide propulsion. However, splits will flex, and once they have flexed maximally, they provide no further resistance to the water, and therefore no further forward force. So the leg excursion which is creating propulsive force is shorter, and the frequency has to be higher, in split fins. The effort expended by your muscles per stroke is lower, but the number of strokes required to cover a given distance is greater.

Hi Lynne, (or - dare I call you "Cupcake"?)

You stated it better and more clearly (as usual) than I could have done. I would just add two things.

First, many people think current matters in the performance of fins, but I don't think that's true. Fin performance and your speed relative to the water is the same regardless of current. Your speed relative to the bottom is the sum of your swimming speed relative to the water and the current. Long, floppy fins produce less power "against a current" because they produce less power, period. Divers notice this more when they are struggling against a current because they are kicking harder and they can measure their lack of progress better.

Second, as can be seen in the "29-lb lift" video, to produce the same power, a long, floppy fin requires a faster kick cycle or a larger amplitude (up-and-down motion) kick, or both. A larger amplitude will generate a larger wake pattern and more turbulence behind the diver. This may be why many divers report that split fins seem to kick up more silt.