Buddy Breathing

[Thalassamania]

I'm not disagreeing, I still teach and drill BB.

 

[Akimbo]

I find it sad that this question is posted in the "Advanced Scuba Discussions" forum. Old farts like me consider buddy breathing the next skill after mask clearing. Both were during my first pool sesson.

 

[h90]

Recently, a large certification organization will soon discontinue the teaching of buddy breathing. I was wondering what divers thought of this. Do you feel that this skill is a valuable one, or archaic considering that redundant air sources are available to the diver?

I think even if someone thinks that it is not necessary anymore, it is still a skill which teach confidence in working together, controlling the breathing etc etc.
They didn't teach me on my PADI some years ago

 

[DCBC]

I think even if someone thinks that it is not necessary anymore, it is still a skill which teach confidence in working together, controlling the breathing etc etc. They didn't teach me on my PADI some years ago

The primary aim of some certifying bodies (and some instructors) is to crank out as many divers as possible and for them to purchase equipment and travel. Others in the industry want to pass on the skills that they have found with their experience as necessary and focus on diver competence.

Some students just want the minimum, others want to learn what they need. It use to be that an individual could depend upon a certification organization's standards to teach them what they need to know before venturing underwater. Times change... but each of us have our own take on all this I suppose.

 

[Captain Bil]

Recently, a large certification organization will soon discontinue the teaching of buddy breathing. I was wondering what divers thought of this. Do you feel that this skill is a valuable one, or archaic considering that redundant air sources are available to the diver?

That's a shame. I still teach single regulator air sharing in addition to buddy breathing with a 2nd stage/octopus set up (or Air2), and I always will. Just because the agencies cut out subjects doesn't mean we can't continue to require them. Example: NAUI no longer requires a distance swim as a pre-requisite, but I still require it anyway. If you can't swim, you can't dive, period (with me anyway).

 

[Thalassamania]

Please understand NAUI's swimming standard. Competent watermanship is still required, it just that you know the competent swimmers from those who can't cut it within a few strokes of the edge of the poor, yes? There's nothing wrong with completing the swim if you want, but please do not assume that the swimming requirement has been dropped.

 

[Sloth]

One thing I've noticed with divers that are trained to grab dive buddies back up reg is they tend to almost always rotate it upside down instead of turning it to keep it up right. This leads to those few wet breathes which causes them to panic more. At this point they are debating grabbing your primary. Seem like this is a good time to do a few buddy breathes to get them breathing the octo right or just leave them on your primary while you go to your octo. Of course a proper donation during OOA will negate this issue. BB seems to have its place so long as air shares aren't trained properly or if the skill isnt maintained.

Also, CESA should be last ditch IMO. PADI teaches buddy breathing as last ditch but the chances of a diver successfully preforming a CESA from a deep depth like 100' with no DCI seems highly unlikely. 60ft per min from 100ft is NDL as far as PADI is concerned but you are probably increasing your risk for serious injury if you do it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Acceptable ascent rate has to do with exposure. It is possible to do a submarine escape from over 300 feet at more than 300 feet per minute without risk of DCS, because the exposure is rather short. An emergency ascent rate of 60 fpm is, from what I know, perfectly acceptable and rather unlikely to cause any problem. In point of fact, in the old days, divers who were timed on the ascents without their knowledge often had ascent rates of 100 or even 120 feet per minute, with exposures that went almost all the way out the then USN NDLs. I'd would not want to try that all the time,and in a pinch I'd much rather BB, but it is important that you have a realistic rather than alarmist assessment of the true risks.

 

[msg]

Buddy Breathing isn't my favorite exercise to do, but I do feel that it is very important to the diver. Trying to get students to understand how to do it, and not to panic is an important skill, IMO. There is a degree of comfort knowing that you can have an equipment failure, and still make it back to shore or the boat, w/o panic. That only comes from practice -- it is too late when the time comes for BB, and you can't do it because you have never done it. BB should stay in the course requirements, as well as tables.

 

[Sloth]

Acceptable ascent rate has to do with exposure. It is possible to do a submarine escape from over 300 feet at more than 300 feet per minute without risk of DCS, because the exposure is rather short. An emergency ascent rate of 60 fpm is, from what I know, perfectly acceptable and rather unlikely to cause any problem. In point of fact, in the old days, divers who were timed on the ascents without their knowledge often had ascent rates of 100 or even 120 feet per minute, with exposures that went almost all the way out the then USN NDLs. I'd would not want to try that all the time,and in a pinch I'd much rather BB, but it is important that you have a realistic rather than alarmist assessment of the true risks.

I may not be clear. I was using the term DCI which includes barotrauma in it's definition. Obviously there is little chance of DCS due to a poor CESA from depth but there is a fair risk of DCI if a diver ascends to fast and isn't doing a good job of holding his air way open. Though I would say I wouldn't personally want to ascend from 100 feet at 60fpm on scuba with no stop even in NDL. 60fpm as a shallow ascent rate (less then 100ft) is way outdated and really should be phased out IMO. Old school divers like yourself that learned when you had to be in shape could tolerate fast ascent rates including the Navy ascent rates of 120fpm. (at least I think it was the Navy that specified 120fpm.) I don't think most divers now a days are quite the physical specimens that the older ascent rates are based on

With the conditioning and water comfort level of most tourist divers I don't think it is alarmist at all to point out the risk of doing a CESA. Few divers have every free dived deeper then 20 feet. Telling a diver like that it's ok to do a CESA from 100 feet probably isnt realistic. But of course injured on the surface is far better then drowned on the bottom.

On a side note I've heard about the submariners being able to do incredibly deep CESA with training. Could the really do 300 feet per minute on a lung full of compressed air with no barotrauma? Pretty amazing.