MLPA makes front page of LA Times

[drbill]

Oops, you're right... but I thought the horoscope looked favorable on that day.

 

[jridg]

I agree with you analysis of what would happen if the ocean ran out of fish. Many people, myself included, simply think there are better ways to manage (and rebuild) fish biomass than completely closing down the most productive areas of the ocean to fishing of any kind.

I think the main problem is that the fishermen don't want any quotas (at least most of the ones who are vocal don't) - and if they fight, and win against quotas and responsible stewardship, they will continue to need to push farther and farther off shore to find what they need until they go completely out of business. They tend to have a very short-sighted view of reality and don't want to hear what's true and backed up by science. This kind of bull-headed thinking and acting (literally voting against their own and their children's best interests) will, if successful, be the downfall of the system (economic, ecologic).

 

[Skull]

All I'm saying is that by shutting down every single coastal reef and kelp forest from the TJ river to Half Moon bay is going to have a tremendous impact on the "sport fishing" industry. The revenues alone from lack of fishing licenses will greatly impact local communities as well as the DFG ... after the fall in revenues undoubtedly they will come begging for more funds from the general fund to "maintain" their current budgetary needs. Perhaps we can tap into the agriculture industries robust revenue stream to the state treasury course I'm not sure Argentina will give us any money .... ahh better yet we can just tap into the aerospace industries vast reserves of tax revenues Texas and Georgia will most likely tell us to F off.....ahhh maybe we can just hit up the entertainment businesss revenues .....damn they all moved to Nashville, Canada and the internet .

BTW I don't fish the coastal areas except for bugs on occasion ... but someone better get a hold on the financial impacts this is going to have to local communities ...thats all I'm saying .... Then again on second thought we can all just depend on the real estate and construction industries for them to pick up the slack in lost revenues to the DFG .... that would be the real estate revenues of Nevada, Idaho and Arizona...projected budget deficit for 2010 is already a couple billion short.

The loss of the fisheries are real and I am in no way suggesting we keep the status quo ...cause there are few that I know we like to dive the kelp more than me .. but there are other considerations involved like maintaining a real flow of revenues to maintain the man power required to facilitate the MLPA. Course you can always depend on your fellow citizens to "police" the reefs ...ya know the ones that are going to pay for this.

 

[drbill]

The "financial impacts" are not due to the establishment of marine protected areas, they are due to over fishing. The fishing industry and community have in large part brought this upon themselves. Of course there are other factors including pollution, etc.

To a large (but not total) extent the fishing community reminds me of the US auto industry... fighting every effort to improve the future. Of course there are valid exceptions to this, but until the fishing community in general shows me the same dedication that Ducks Unlimited does, I have to feel they are largely at fault for the current situation.

Of course the decline in our stocks and ecosystems have occurred over many decades of unsustainable harvest. Anyone with a sufficiently long-term view knows this.

Proper management for the future will probably require both MPAs and better catch restrictions (slot limits, reduced bag limits, etc.) in the MANY areas only to fishing. After all, even the most detested (by the fishing community) proposal only closes about 20% of the coast.

 

[Skull]

The "financial impacts" are not due to the establishment of marine protected areas, they are due to over fishing. The fishing industry and community have in large part brought this upon themselves. Of course there are other factors including pollution, etc.

To a large (but not total) extent the fishing community reminds me of the US auto industry... fighting every effort to improve the future. Of course there are valid exceptions to this, but until the fishing community in general shows me the same dedication that Ducks Unlimited does, I have to feel they are largely at fault for the current situation.

Of course the decline in our stocks and ecosystems have occurred over many decades of unsustainable harvest. Anyone with a sufficiently long-term view knows this.

Proper management for the future will probably require both MPAs and better catch restrictions (slot limits, reduced bag limits, etc.) in the MANY areas only to fishing. After all, even the most detested (by the fishing community) proposal only closes about 20% of the coast.

I've been a DU member since I was crapping green ...born and raised in western Pa .. ha ha ha and I agree that for the most part the commercial and rec fishing has caused great harm to the fisheries. My point is that although it is only 20% of the coast it is however ~ 85% of the fishing grounds. Again I am not a coastal fisherman so I got no skin in this game even though I do occasionally go for palegics south-west of the coronados, My real concern is that when the licensing drops down some 70% and the funding for the DFG drys up ... who is gonna pay for the policing?

Second when you head south of the boarder on any given day and see the complete difference in water color ...i.e. Mexican water is far less poluted than American intercoastal water ... I find the water here in the states to be disgusting ... but it is what it is for we divers on the mainland. I have to question whether it is polution that is the main culprit or over fishin.

Bill I live on the west facing slope of Point Loma with an full 180deg view from PB Point to almost the sewer reclaimation plant and can tell you that aside from the typical recreational 20'+ boats hitting the Kelp (which most are catch and release) there are very few cattle boats hitting the kelp. Maybe its diferent in the LA area but down here ... its mostly sail boats and a few die hard bass fisherman.

Just saying that when the revenues fall short who is gonna fund the DFG and all their demands for greater funding to police this program?

 

[drbill]

The cattle boats are hitting us out here on Catalina, Skull, presumably because there aren't enough fish to catch any more over there off "The Big Island." Many private sport fishing boats do so as well, and of course because they (like me) enjoy being out on the water.

I agree with the serious influence of pollution. However depletion has also occurred here in Catalina waters where pollution is far less of a factor and over fishing the primary cause as far as I can tell. We are also farther out so that limits some anglers, as does the distance to San Clemente.

One need only dive our few existing protected areas to verify that over fishing is the issue off Catalina rather than pollution. In areas like the Blue Caverns or Casino Point there are far healthier fish and invertebrate stocks than in the adjacent areas open to fishing. It doesn't help that cattle boats like the Freelance out of Newport enjoy dropping anchor adjacent to these reserves (some of the BEST evidence that reserves DO work). They had stopped this practice after I got the captain to talk with the harbormaster about its legality, but they have resumed it recently.

And there are species such as striped marlin that probably aren't declining primarily due to sport fishing. Anglers for this species have adopted C&R with C-hooks to reduce their impact... which is nowhere near that of the long line fleet to the south where a single boat was recently boarded and an estimated 10,000 striped marlin carcasses discovered. Of course this is a pelagic species that will largely be unaffected by nearshore MPAs.

 

[Skull]

Ok I will ask one more time ....for all of you who favor the MLPA how do you plan on funding the manpower required to police this policy?

Do any of you have a clue as to how this will be done?

 

[White Knight]

Ok I will ask one more time ....for all of you who favor the MLPA how do you plan on funding the manpower required to police this policy?

Do any of you have a clue as to how this will be done?

Yes Skull, I do...California will raise taxes on employers, increase sin taxes such as tobacco (claiming it to be for teen smoking prevention) and alcohol, increase building permit fees, add and/or increase beach use fees, increase park fees, increase boat registration fees, increase fishing licenses to Pluto, increase DMV fees, increase payroll withholding beyond the needed amount, sell bonds (passing the debt on to our children) increase income taxes, issue IOU's in the place of tax refunds, increase sales taxes, increase gasoline excise taxes, cut back on education, cut back on state parks, cut back on any resource a "taxpayer" would use......and then fund MLPA!

The environmentalists will not pay a dime—the final insult! Just like any other liberal cause or organization...they plan to give you the shirt off of someone else's back!

Any questions.......!

 

[Teamcasa]

Ok I will ask one more time ....for all of you who favor the MLPA how do you plan on funding the manpower required to police this policy?

Do any of you have a clue as to how this will be done?

So, since California will not be able to enforce this with a multitude of guard boats and 100's more F&G officers we should just forget it and let the fishermen deplete whatever fish stocks are left?

 

[Skull]

Yes Skull, I do...California will raise taxes on employers, increase sin taxes such as tobacco (claiming it to be for teen smoking prevention) and alcohol, increase building permit fees, add and/or increase beach use fees, increase park fees, increase boat registration fees, increase fishing licenses to Pluto, increase DMV fees, increase payroll withholding beyond the needed amount, sell bonds (passing the debt on to our children) increase income taxes, issue IOU's in the place of tax refunds, increase sales taxes, increase gasoline excise taxes, cut back on education, cut back on state parks, cut back on any resource a "taxpayer" would use......and then fund MLPA!

The environmentalists will not pay a dime—the final insult! Just like any other liberal cause or organization...they plan to give you the shirt off of someone else's back!

Any questions.......!

Well we can always ask the CTA for a contribution. Or perhaps the prison guards will kick in some dough .... all jokes aside I'm not really getting this. If the entire DF&G budget is funded by licensing and fees and by no fault of their own, since they are neutral on this subject however are commissioned to enforce this policy where is the extra money gonna come from. The obvious thing is that out of state licensing will drop off, local recreational salt water stamp purchases will drop off and commercial licensing for inter coastal fishing licenses will drop off. They are barely funded now with the drop off of legal hunting areas i.e less hunters buying licenses and stamps, and fresh water fishing again less fresh water fishermen... yet the poachers are still out there in force. Guess they will have to go hat in hand to get money from the general fund.... fighting off the CTA and Prison Guard thugs-eh?