BP/W: I officially don't get it

[DOkie]

No, but if you regularly dive in conditions that most benefit from using one, it might make the experience more enjoyable for you. I know it does for me. It isn't going to change your skill level one way or the other, except that you might gain additional proficiency in setting up and using a backplate rig. Frankly, I think the idea it will make someone a more skillful diver is more than a little bit stupid.
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Please, please, please don't take this as me trying to be a smartass, but what conditions? I think that's what confuses me most of all. I'd appreciate input...

 

[Peter Guy]

My back inflate BC (SeaQuest Balance) is even easier to doff/don than the jacket BC and is more comfortable to boot.

Jacket BC -- cummmerbund with Velcro (often sticks to itself or BC) must be attached; waist strap over CB must be attached; shoulder straps must be tightened; chest strap attached

Back Inflate -- same as above BUT without sticky cummberbund -- so one less step and much less restrictive in front

So please, explain to me why the Jacket is so much easier to doff and don as compared to a "standard" back inflate BC?

 

[MSilvia]

No, but if you regularly dive in conditions that most benefit from using one, it might make the experience more enjoyable for you.

Please, please, please don't take this as me trying to be a smartass, but what conditions? I think that's what confuses me most of all. I'd appreciate input...

No problem, I'm happy to explain myself. I think most knowledgeable folks would agree that it's a great platform for technical, overhead, and doubles diving, but that aside, it's excellent for cold water recreational divers.

As a newbie diving in New England with a 7mm farmer john and jacket with a jacket BC and AL80, I needed 38 lbs. of lead on my belt. Let me tell you, that sucks to carry around, and it's not easy to find a jacket with integrated weight pockets that can carry that much lead. It pretty much meant wearing a belt, and with 38 lbs on a belt, you end up pretty vertical in the water. I moved some weight from the belt to my cam strap, and that helped some, but it was still not quite what I'd like.

Fast forward several hundred dives, and I could dive that same gear with probably 34 lbs on my belt, but I don't. I got a drysuit, and that let me shave off a few pounds (in addition to it's other benefits). Unfortunately, the DiveRite Transpac II I was using at the time had a chest strap that interfered with the inflator valve on my drysuit, and I was starting to grow frustrated with it. I noticed several of my dive buddies switching to backplates, and I tried one out.

I got a 6 lb steel backplate, a 4 lb single tank adapter, and steel tanks, and suddenly found I was able to dive with only 14 pounds on my belt. I had much better control of my trim due to the better distribution of ballast too. I've found plenty of other reasons to prefer that setup since then, but after the first few dives, I knew I'd never go back to a jacket BC and 10 lbs of extra lead. That it was easy to pack and let let me dive on vacation with no weight belt whatsoever was just icing on the cake, as was the fact that it saved me from having to once again change all my gear when I started to pursue technical training in steel doubles.

 

[CompuDude]

I think maybe its a language barrier again your above quote is irrelevant as most dive shops have BC's that range from small to extra large, I absolutely agree that a BP/W is way more adjustable than a jacket, I would not buy a jacket style BCD in case my 6'4" friend would like to borrow it I mean give me a break in addition to this I would not let anyone else dive with my rig.

The OP question was BP/W when is it time? (I think)

You might want to tell that to my LDS, which makes a habit of outfitting new OW students in bp/w's on a fairly regular basis.

Incidentally, a jacket BC does NOT cause an unconscious student to float face up in the water. You could position them that way on purpose if you want, and hold them to keep them that way (just like with a bp/w!), but face up is simply not a default position of any dive gear in current use today. (Horse collar BCs aren't really use so often anymore, but those WOULD provide a default face up position... clearly safer, so why aren't they the first choice, if safety really is the bottom line?)

 

[DOkie]

MSilvia: Don't want to sound like I'm picking, but how would the BP/W help in cold water? I understand the simplicity if donning it with a drysuit, but other than that.... Same with overhead environments. I'm genuinely curious. Wreck penetration, ice diving? I dive all of the above and don't have a problem with a jacket BC. What would be the difference? Have you dove with both in similar environments and what was your experience? Thanks. (I have asked this question to my buddy, but since he's never dove with a jacket he can't compare).

 

[Gombessa]

MSilvia: Don't want to sound like I'm picking, but how would the BP/W help in cold water? I understand the simplicity if donning it with a drysuit, but other than that.... Same with overhead environments. I'm genuinely curious. Wreck penetration, ice diving? I dive all of the above and don't have a problem with a jacket BC. What would be the difference? Have you dove with both in similar environments and what was your experience? Thanks. (I have asked this question to my buddy, but since he's never dove with a jacket he can't compare).

I think Matt explained it well above, but generally speaking, the need for greater weight in cold water benefits from the natural buoyancy characteristics and on-the-body positioning of a stainless steel backplate. Trimming out a BP requires less total weight and more flexibility in where that weight goes. With a jacket BC, you need a little more weight and typically have to position trim weights if you want to maintain yourself in prone position.

 

[MSilvia]

MSilvia: Don't want to sound like I'm picking, but how would the BP/W help in cold water?

The biggest difference to me is that it lets me take a significant portion of the lead off of my belt, and redistributes it (in the form of a plate and STA) in such a way that it seems less cumbersome. There are a number of other benefits I appreciate, but that one is HUGE. As a cold water diver, I need a lot of ballast.

Bottom line: All things being equal, if I dove my current gear configuration (steel single tank, dry suit, etc) with a jacket, I'd need about 26 lbs of lead or more. with a BP/W, I need 16 or less. To me, that's a major objectively verifiable improvement.

As for any kind of overhead, I prefer to do those dives in doubles where possible, and a backplate is (in my experience) the most stable platform for doubles. I've done ice diving in a single, and obviously didn't get that particular advantage there, but it was nice to have a lighter belt and to be able to easily move my D-rings out of the way of the tender harness.

 

[David_57]

You might want to tell that to my LDS, which makes a habit of outfitting new OW students in bp/w's on a fairly regular basis.

Incidentally, a jacket BC does NOT cause an unconscious student to float face up in the water. You could position them that way on purpose if you want, and hold them to keep them that way (just like with a bp/w!), but face up is simply not a default position of any dive gear in current use today. (Horse collar BCs aren't really use so often anymore, but those WOULD provide a default face up position... clearly safer, so why aren't they the first choice, if safety really is the bottom line?)

Hey agreed I just said in my posts I have heard the face up float position mentioned by Instructors as a reason for Jacket BC's.

 

[DOkie]

MSilvia: Thanks again. Now I get where you're coming from in regards to cold water. Just so you know I wasn't picking, I also dive in cold water (Great Lakes - temp at depth was 40 this past weekend... ughh..) but at 5'2" and 102 lbs diving with 100's, I don't use much weight. I also understand the ultimate versatility with doubles (I would have to purchase a whole new setup to go this route), but being that my regular diving generally stays around 140 feet I haven't found the need. In ice diving, I've never really had a problem either (other than thinking "what the h**L am I doing this for again") before entering the water... Can a BP/W help me with that? I would convert in a heartbeat!!!

I just think it's what you like diving with. I know my husband loves his. As far as being defensive, I'm not sure who posted it, but I agree that it's the same either way. It used to strike a nerve with me when someone thought I was a new diver because of my BC and I'm sure it's the same when someone makes a crack at a B/W diver for "trying to look tech". Now it doesn't bother me so much.

Thanks again for the perspective of both sides. It's appreciated.

 

[MSilvia]

Just so you know I wasn't picking, I also dive in cold water (Great Lakes - temp at depth was 40 this past weekend... ughh..) but at 5'2" and 102 lbs diving with 100's, I don't use much weight.

No worries, I didn't think you were doing anything other than trying to understand. Yeah... the size thing would account for the difference, given that I'm 5'11" and 250 lbs.

In ice diving, I've never really had a problem either (other than thinking "what the h**L am I doing this for again") before entering the water... Can a BP/W help me with that? I would convert in a heartbeat!!!

I wouldn't say there's a substantial difference when ice diving, if you don't carry much weight to begin with. Most of the folks I've done ice dives with were in jacket or back inflate BCs without a hard plate, and it didn't seem to make any difference I could see.

Unfortunately, no... I don't think there's a BC out there that would make ice diving less crazy.

Thanks again for the perspective of both sides. It's appreciated.

My pleasure.