BP/W: I officially don't get it

[mikeguerrero]

I don't think I've ever heard a diver state, he went from a BP/W to a BCD after about 60 dives and felt a drastic change in trim and bouyancy... Instead you hear the shift from BCD to BP/W...

Why do you think this occurs and not the other way around? There has to be a reason?

 

[Sas]

I don't think I've ever heard a diver state, he went from a BP/W to a BCD after about 60 dives and felt a drastic change in trim and bouyancy... Instead you hear the shift from BCD to BP/W...

Why do you think this occurs and not the other way around? There has to be a reason?

Because in general, people prefer BP/W to jacket/back inflate BCs. Obviously not everyone prefers it but the majority of people I know tend to prefer a BP/W over a jacket/back inflate BC after trying them out. For various reasons mentioned in this thread already

Or maybe I am misunderstanding your question? Are you asking why do people start in a jacket BC rather than a BP/W?

 

[mikeguerrero]

Because in general, people prefer BP/W to jacket/back inflate BCs. Obviously not everyone prefers it but the majority of people I know tend to prefer a BP/W over a jacket/back inflate BC after trying them out. For various reasons mentioned in this thread already

Or maybe I am misunderstanding your question? Are you asking why do people start in a jacket BC rather than a BP/W?

Here take a look at these two pics: This should explain why we begin BCD and go BP/W...

Before: 1st year diving...

After: 2nd year diving to present...

 

[Sas]

I don't follow?

 

[mikeguerrero]

I don't follow?

Long story short:

I started diving in Sep 2007 and fell in love... The LDS never carried a BP/W and so I fell into admiring the thousands of BCD's they had in stock. Soon I was saying, wow, this looks cool and wow check out these features; end result I purchased a BCD that had a lever that added air into my Jacket inflate the ProQD i3.

I was in love with my BCD and it did its job for one full year, I refused to believe there was any other system that could give me better performance until I met and dove my first BP/W.

I have since been a very happy diver with my current gear and have dove it also in the warm waters of Florida without a hitch.

So the pictures just show the change in one year from BCD to BP/W...

Does that make better sense?

Most often you hear about a BCD to BP/W conversion, but never a BP/W diver after about one year of solid diving sell his rig and get a BCD jacket inflate... That is what I wanted to originally say.. But I most often come off as a dork... sorry...

 

[Sas]

Long story short:

I started diving in Sep 2007 and fell in love... The LDS never carried a BP/W and so I fell into admiring the thousands of BCD's they had in stock. Soon I was saying, wow, this looks cool and wow check out these features; end result I purchased a BCD that had a lever that added air into my Jacket inflate the ProQD i3.

I was in love with my BCD and it did its job for one full year, I refused to believe there was any other system that could give me better performance until I met and dove my first BP/W.

I have since been a very happy diver with my current gear and have dove it also in the warm waters of Florida without a hitch.

So the pictures just show the change in one year from BCD to BP/W...

Does that make better sense?

Most often you hear about a BCD to BP/W conversion, but never a BP/W diver after about one year of solid diving sell his rig and get a BCD jacket inflate... That is what I wanted to originally say.. But I most often come off as a dork... sorry...

Ok fair enough. The pictures did not explain why people in general go from jacket BCDs to BP/W, just seemed to show your different setups so I did not see your point.

I know of a few people who do not like BP/Ws and go back to jacket style BCDs... so it is not "never" (as you can see by the OP) but it is rarer than the reverse. I personally do not think there is one bit of gear that suits everyone. Whilst most people seem to prefer BP/Ws if given the chance to try them, this does not mean they are suitable for everyone.

 

[MSilvia]

Whilst most people seem to prefer BP/Ws if given the chance to try them, this does not mean they are suitable for everyone.

No, but a jacket BC isn't suitable for everyone either.

 

[mudhole]

No, but a jacket BC isn't suitable for everyone either.

Please, everyone step back and think about what you are saying. . . please. You CAN make any dive with any piece of gear, it all works. You can have an uncomfortable fit in any system, and a comfortable fit in any system. BC's, BP&W, both hold your tank on your back. . . they don't make you sexier, thinner or all of the mental garbage that goes on here on the web.

I've been diving a long time and used all the gear you like to argue about, and a few you'll never know. I came up alive from every safe and unsafe configuration. The different configurations are appropriate for different circumstances. Some scream about BP&W is all you see in your neck of the woods. . . You live in a small bubble, and probably dive advanced dives. You can hang more tanks on a backpack than you can on a jacket, horse collar, back inflate. . . but a back plate is only comfortable on a thick wetsuit or drysuit. Two inch webbing eats, sunburned shoulders in warm summer diving. More divers take lessons in warmer parts of the country, an many won't dive with a wetsuit, or a thin suit.

Dive centers rent jacket type BC's because they fit "pretty well" and are easy to put on for inexperienced divers. Inexperienced divers make up the greatest number of divers, with few every staying long enough to become experienced enough to benefit from the real advantages of a BP&W. Tell 10 diving students to re-thread and adjust strap for a plate, and no one will reach the water. If you have a dive class in the northern part of the country and you have to start students in dry suits or 7 mm suits, only determined students will finish putting on the suit. The ones that do are going to work harder than most new divers.

Take a broader look at your diving needs, and the needs of the countless beginning divers in tropical resorts that just want gear easy to put on, to make a few vacation dives. Many will never dive again, but they remember diving as a fun activity. This past weekend, the wife of a friend remarked about all the trouble of suiting up and the amount of work it took to make a few dives. We're maybe senile, but we were looking forward to the fun we were going to have, not the work and sweat of putting on a wetsuit in 95 degree weather.

Mike Guerrero. . . please don't take offense, Your picture as a first year diver, compared to your second year diving changes. . . it will change more. As you become a better diver, and some of your gear shows wear, you will make changes to better fit what is working for you, and what is not. There will be people on the board that will hate what I say. . . OK, work with beginning divers, work to keep them diving, Jump around the different specialties of diving. . . And I wish I had pictures each year. Some of what I wore would make everyone laugh, some might run in fear, from the crazy. . .

When I dove doubles and triples, I wouldn't think of anything but a plate and webbing, nobody I knew then wanted a wing to tear. Laugh at me for being old and comfort is more important. Those of you that think the plate "looks pro" a pro is diving with anything cheap, it's badly worn out, and you won't want your picture taken. Into my late 30's I still put on a plate with singles and doubles, by standing behind the rig, Grasped the tank through the arm webbing. . . up and over the head, and held on till I slowly lowered the plate into place. Why, you don't mess around on the surface when you're supposed to be working on the bottom, there is no one there to "help", everyone is gearing up quickly. . . If you want to try this- do it in waist deep water with no one nearby that could be hit by flying tanks. It's not for safety, not for show, you'll scare lots of people if you do it right, you'll really scare people and maybe hurt yourself, if you do it wrong and a tank goes loose, or all the hoses become tangled.

All this is just toys, to have a good time underwater. Dive the fun stuff, and avoid the scary stuff until you're experience or foolish enough to think some things look like fun.

 

[MSilvia]

Please, everyone step back and think about what you are saying. . . please. You CAN make any dive with any piece of gear, it all works. You can have an uncomfortable fit in any system, and a comfortable fit in any system. BC's, BP&W, both hold your tank on your back. . . they don't make you sexier, thinner or all of the mental garbage that goes on here on the web.

Since you chose to quote me, I'd ask that you think about what I'm saying. It's not (at all) about any of the "mental garbage" you seem to think we're talking about. It's about using the right tool for the job. For a lot of tools, it doesn't matter what you use, but for others, some gear is inappropriate. Use what makes sense.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect any piece of gear to be "right" for every application, or for every individual, and I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference whether that piece of gear is a BP/W rig, a jacket BC, a mask, spear, or Speedo. Sure, you can dive with almost anything, but not every gear configuration has the same strengths and weaknesses as every other. What's just fine in an Arkansas mud pit or a tropical reef might not be just fine under a frozen Canadian lake or when wreck diving in the North Sea... and vice versa. Make sensible choices.

... a back plate is only comfortable on a thick wetsuit or drysuit. Two inch webbing eats, sunburned shoulders in warm summer diving.

That I find webbing perfectly comfortable when wearing a t-shirt or 1mm microprene suit aside, two inch webbing is only one of a very long list of things that I'd consider painful if it were chaffing against my sunburned shoulders. I'm curious what soothing miracle material you prefer to rub your sunburns with.

If you're going to avoid every piece of dive gear that hurts when you wear it on sunburned skin, you're going to be doing a lot of skinny dipping.

 

[CompuDude]

You can hang more tanks on a backpack than you can on a jacket, horse collar, back inflate. . . but a back plate is only comfortable on a thick wetsuit or drysuit. Two inch webbing eats, sunburned shoulders in warm summer diving. More divers take lessons in warmer parts of the country, an many won't dive with a wetsuit, or a thin suit.

Tell 10 diving students to re-thread and adjust strap for a plate, and no one will reach the water. If you have a dive class in the northern part of the country and you have to start students in dry suits or 7 mm suits, only determined students will finish putting on the suit. The ones that do are going to work harder than most new divers.

Considering the skills needed to adjust a backplate (pre-threaded, as most would be in that situation) are not really that different from the skills needed to adjust a seatbelt, I think you underestimate your students a smidge.

As to your assertion that a backplate is ONLY comfortable on a thick wetsuit or drysuit, I'll have to disagree with YOUR OPINION on that subject. I'd agree that 2" webbing is the most comfortable thing on bare skin, but outside of that rare scenario (the VAST majority of the world's diving takes place with at least a t-shirt or even a thin shorty), IMO (and in the opinions of many others) they're perfectly comfortable.