Free Flow in reality!

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For suitably advanced divers with proper training, this may be a possibility although I've never heard of it before - techies and DIR/GUE folk feel free to contribute - is this a real skill? I can imagine worst case scenarios where this might be useful but I don't do that sort of diving - I'm interested.

For your average recreational diver - there is no way I'm going to teach somebody to remove their gear and put it on backwards whilst simulataneously breathing through a free-flowing regulator, hanging on to their mask, switching their tank on and off and making a CESA!

I agree that untrained rec divers should not attempt this, as it's liable to end in a real emergency or worse. But I've done it as a drill a number of times, both on the bottom and while swimming horizontally. I've even swapped CCRs with another diver whilst swimming, just as a drill to brush up our equipment handling skills.

None of this is difficult if learned carefully with reliable support, but VERY dangerous for people "just to try" on their own.
 
No. . .singles or doubles set-up open circuit, you just reach back and feather/modulate your tank valve. You do not take off your BP/W or BCD and tank kit. . .
 
This is what to do. relax take of the BC like you been shown. in your training from the left buckle to passing round the back from Left to Right. turn the air off Immediately!
you may have to breath of the free flow first before. However PUT THE BC IN LIKE A REVERSED Jacket. So the tank is in front of you. Arms through the BC straps and hug the kit. You then have full control to turn the air on and breath off the leek turn off and continue this as you Ascend, air allowing.
I just stumbled across this thread and as usual, I'll read it after I respond... LOL

Someone probably already said this, but this technique is called "feathering". I was taught it as a possible solution to a regulator failure on a stage bottle during a tek class. I've seen it used for real once (on a deco bottle) and it does work at the expense of significant task loading.

I would think that many divers would spend longer getting their BCD's turned around and all set up for this than it would take them to just bug out to the surface.

R..
 
No. . .singles or doubles set-up open circuit, you just reach back and feather/modulate your tank valve. You do not take off your BP/W or BCD and tank kit. . .

I've played around with doing exactly what the OP suggests and at least in the pool it works and is actually very easy.

I think if you were diving with very light gear in, for example, some warm clear water somewhere that it would be viable, provided you had the buoyancy control and experience to doff/don your kit while hovering.

In fact, in light gear the doff/don skill is (for me anyway) considerably easier to do while hovering than the way it's taught. The main precondition is that your gear is balanced so your jacket doesn't try to float/sink away from you as you slip out of it.

In heavy or badly balanced gear, doffing your gear mid water could easily result in diver and gear parting company....

R..
 
...anybody ever just...
kink their 2nd stage hose???????

in a free flow reg. scenario,of course..

I'm pretty sure that if the freeflow were being caused by a failure in the first stage that kinking the hose would just cause the air to come out of the octopus instead, if it wasn't already.

I'm not sure kinking it would have much effect if the problem were in the 2nd stage. It might but the pressure is several times higher than your average garden hose and the hose is a lot smaller and filled with air instead of water. Expecting a similar result without first sacrificing a hose to try it would make it plan C or D on my agenda of things to try.

R..
 
No. . .singles or doubles set-up open circuit, you just reach back and feather/modulate your tank valve. You do not take off your BP/W or BCD and tank kit. . .
Yes you do, or rather you can and probably need to, if the problem is that a 2nd stage hose has pulled out of its end ferrule and you only have one first stage. Or the hose has ruptured at the curve near the first stage. No other way to get access to the air.

But again, you need controlled training to do this. But it isn't actually rocket science, nor need it be particularly stressful.
 
Diver0001
safe 2nd is usally detuned
primary hose will crimp off(depending on type of hose)
this lets you use your octo with the higher i.p. due to freeze up
 
Not quite sure what you're saying. If the regulator hose has failed at or near the 1st stage (as I have seen happen) then crimping the hose doesn't help. And your alternate won't be much use either, or at any rate not for long.
 
Not quite sure what you're saying either peterbj7. In my single tank incident, my primary 2nd stage cracking adjustment knob & assembly completely blew out resulting in a catastrophic free-flow (i.e. might as well be analogous to a failed regulator hose near the 1st stage at the hose crimp) --and I could still breath nominally off my necklaced/back-up 2nd stage while reaching back and feathering/modulating the tank valve . . .no need to remove the whole kit and sling it in front.
 
So we are down 26 mts in a wreck . The hose gets snagged on something sharp. :depressed: What the hell do you do? :shocked2:

Exactly what I was correctly trained to do...way back on my OW course.

1. Signal buddy.
2. Obtain buddy's AAS.
3. Breath from AAS.
4. Ascend safely.

well in cuba courses. with free flow. your told to put the reg in half way in the mouth. use the tung as a splash guard. Breath off the acquired air as the rest flows away. so you don't get a lung expansion injury. But use the free flowing air to make it to the surface , You may need to do an emergency ascent. Hmmm So what if the air is rushing out els where?

Firstly, a rupture elsewhere in the system will not mean air becomes inaccessible from your regulators.

If you mean....your primary hose is severed...and not providing air through your primary reg....then you can switch to your own AAS in a second.

Signal buddy, monitor your air and ascend...being prepared to switch to your buddy's AAS in the unlikely event that your own air becomes depleted from the leak before you surface.

If you mean....your primary AND AAs hoses are severed...and not providing air through your primary or AAS reg....then you can breath directly from your LPI inflator. However, it is much easier to use your buddies AAS.

Have you been there? Have you tried it for real? Probably not!

As a relatively novice diver, I once had a dramatic second-stage freeflow at 32m in an ice cold UK quarry. My 15L tank had drained by the time I reached 16m, which was shocking. Luckily I had a pony cylinder...and nearby buddy...so there were plenty of easy, logical options.

One thing that was never an option was to conduct a full equipment remove and replacement (backwards), disconnect my regs and breath directly from the tank valve.

daft!

My Dear instructor Tim, used to put dive tanks with no regs into a swimming pool. We swam for a time from tank to tank breathing off the out let by turning the tap on gently . Breathing of the stream of air and then moving on to the next and so forth, breathing out of corse from one to another. Damn good training.

I think you might find that this was a huge breach of agency standards (any agency you care to choose) and served no purpose at all.

Putting aside the issues of releasing un-regulated high-pressure air into your mouth.... there really isn't a conceivable option where a simpler, quicker and more straightforward alternative would exist.

By teaching this, your instructor has overly complicated the decision making process needed in an OOA emergency by providing ineffective alternatives. Such hinderances would slow, or completely interupt, your reaction process during the demands of a real emergency.

It sounds like ego ("invented my 'own' method") won the battle against common sense and responsibility for this particular instructor.....

The reality. If a free flow happens . especially on the High pressure hose or an O ring. What the hell do you do from 26 MTS . Or what ever!

Very little... an o-ring leak (whether from reg or cylinder valve), or hp hose rupture simply leads to air depletion. It is not immediate. Air would still be available from your regulator for as long as it lasted in your tank.

Even in the situation where a buddy was not available to donate air, you would have adequate time to complete a safe CESA - with the benefit of breathing from your regulator until your tank completely drained.

Given that you are never more than 4 minutes from the surface (within recreational depth limitations and at the slowest of the agency advocated ascent rates), then it is extremely unlikely that your air would deplete before you got to the surface...and, even if it did, you would then have only a short distance to ascend without air.

The critical factor is to recognise the problem and make an immediate decision to ascend. This is only achieved when your decision making process is uncluttered with options and alternatives.

1 DONT PANIC! Just take in that last breath or the breath you have. If your Buddy is there . All the Better. if he's not? remember keep the air way open! Do Not hold your breath! you must stay calm but speed is important.

Ok..."speed is important"...... but you then say.....

This is what to do. relax take of the BC like you been shown. in your training from the left buckle to passing round the back from Left to Right. turn the air off Immediately!
you may have to breath of the free flow first before. However PUT THE BC IN LIKE A REVERSED Jacket. So the tank is in front of you.

1, This is a SLOW reaction. It takes too long. You could be at the surface already in the time it took you to perform a bc remove and replace, tank shut-down and orientated yourself using your proposed method. All your methodachieves is to waste a whole lot of time...when time is critical and your air is bubbling away.

2. It is too complicated. The more complicated the response is to an emergency situation, the more it will add to your stressors. It could easily lead to the diver concerned becoming completely task-loaded and consquently overwhelmed. Remember the priniciple KISS. Your proposition is ludicrously over-complicated.


Remember to practice the What if . And lets hope you will never have to do so in reality.

Practice is great....it is critical if you are to respond effectively in an emergency. However, you have to practice sensible, effective techniques... and keep your options simple and direct. Adding too many possibilities reduces your ability to react effectively and can lead to a complete break-down in response to an emergency.

I would not recommend your proposed method to any scuba diver.

I wrote to the The HSE with this 6 years ago never got a reply. I call it the RFFA Method. Or the gary bridger technique.

Call it what you will.... I would advise you to save money and don't bother to patent the idea.

I strongly expect that the HSE would have filed your proposal in their 'special' cylinderical filing cabinet.....
 
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