Free Flow in reality!

[diveactive]

So we are down 26 mts in a wreck . The hose gets snagged on something sharp. :depressed:

What the hell do you do? :shocked2:
well in cuba courses. with free flow. your told to put the reg in half way in the mouth. use the tung as a splash guard. Breath off the acquired air as the rest flows away. so you don't get a lung expansion injury. But use the free flowing air to make it to the surface , You may need to do an emergency ascent. Hmmm So what if the air is rushing out els where?

Have you been there? Have you tried it for real? Probably not!

Go and find a deep tank and try it for real. Like I did in Oceanic tank in
Ottery st mary Devon UK some years ago. Training is fun, Oh yes when you practice the WHAT IF!

Then similar reality at 26 mts in Borneo.

My Dear instructor Tim, used to put dive tanks with no regs into a swimming pool. We swam for a time from tank to tank breathing off the out let by turning the tap on gently . Breathing of the stream of air and then moving on to the next and so forth, breathing out of corse from one to another. Damn good training.

The reality. If a free flow happens . especially on the High pressure hose or an O ring. What the hell do you do from 26 MTS . Or what ever!

1 DONT PANIC! Just take in that last breath or the breath you have. If your Buddy is there . All the Better. if he's not? remember keep the air way open! Do Not hold your breath! you must stay calm but speed is important.

This is what to do. relax take of the BC like you been shown. in your training from the left buckle to passing round the back from Left to Right. turn the air off Immediately!
you may have to breath of the free flow first before. However PUT THE BC IN LIKE A REVERSED Jacket. So the tank is in front of you. Arms through the BC straps and hug the kit. You then have full control to turn the air on and breath off the leek turn off and continue this as you Ascend, air allowing. Ascent for all those who are different organizations. 18 mts per min or 9? well we will go into this later. look it up under ascent rate.

You may even have time to do a safety stop. It works. but you need to train and know how.

Remember to practice the What if . And lets hope you will never have to do so in reality.

I wrote to the The HSE with this 6 years ago never got a reply. I call it the RFFA Method. Or the gary bridger technique.

Safe diving, and practice when on the surface head in the water and breathing those streams of bubbles. Make it a rabbit! And never be over weighted. remember the the weight s are only to off put the positiveness of you equipment on the surface . Read my article on weighting. Thank you.

(c)

 

[Crowley]

For suitably advanced divers with proper training, this may be a possibility although I've never heard of it before - techies and DIR/GUE folk feel free to contribute - is this a real skill? I can imagine worst case scenarios where this might be useful but I don't do that sort of diving - I'm interested.

For your average recreational diver - there is no way I'm going to teach somebody to remove their gear and put it on backwards whilst simulataneously breathing through a free-flowing regulator, hanging on to their mask, switching their tank on and off and making a CESA!

There was another similar post recently - again, I can never remember where they are - about the time it takes a cylinder to empty. Okay, it can be rapid but there's still plenty of time to make a safe ascent in most cases. How do I know? Cos I had a high pressure hose explode on me about 18 months ago. Equally, for recreational divers, hopefully we have a buddy with whom we can ascend and share air.

Practicing for 'what if' is great - but for most divers this might be taking it too far. What if we are diving and the sky falls on our heads?

Safe diving - and watch out for the rabbit,

C.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

A blown HP hose takes 20 minutes or so to empty an AL 80 due to the restriction in both the regulator and the hose so it almost a non emergency. A freeflowing second stage in contrast could empty a full AL 80 in a few minutes, and if the pressure is down around 1000 psi near the end of the dive, it could empty in about a minute - which is why deep diving on a single tank without a redundant air supply is not the best idea on the planet.

That said, if the diver is suitably equipped and not diving deeper than the configuration and gas supply allows, a free flowing reg is a non issue as even the minute or so of gas available will get you to the surface, or close enough for a very do-able CESA. If you are deeper than that or in a situation where a safety stop is mandatory, a redundant gas source should be used. An effective buddy is very helpful, but personally I plan and configure in a manner where I do not have to rely on the buddy as despite the best of intentions, separation of buddy teams does occur - especially in recreational diving, much less so in technical diving.

Ideally a diver will also be configured in a manner where he or she can reach the tank valve(s). Removing the BCD is a bad idea, and very bad if it is weight integrated. In most cases, loosening the waist strap should allow you to raise the BCD enough to reach a single tank valve.

With a BP/wing and doubles, the valves can normally be reached without loosening anything so the technical diver responses will not really address what is already a non issue for a diver in redundant doubles where the valve with the freeflowing reg would simply be turned off with the diver breathing on the other reg while the dive is aborted with a normal ascent.

 

[Crowley]

Ideally a diver will also be configured in a manner where he or she can reach the tank valve(s). Removing the BCD is a bad idea, and very bad if it is weight integrated. In most cases, loosening the waist strap should allow you to raise the BCD enough to reach a single tank valve.

With a BP/wing and doubles, the valves can normally be reached without loosening anything so the technical diver responses will not really address what is already a non issue for a diver in redundant doubles where the valve with the freeflowing reg would simply be turned off with the diver breathing on the other reg while the dive is aborted with a normal ascent.

Very bad idea if it's *not* weight integrated also - especially of you're running low on an aluminum tank and wearing a heavy belt!

Good point with the tech valves - I'd forgotten that but now I remember the techies doing drills on the hardeep switching their valves on and off....

C.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So we are down 26 mts in a wreck . The hose gets snagged on something sharp. :depressed:

What the hell do you do? :shocked2:
well in cuba courses. with free flow. your told to put the reg in half way in the mouth. use the tung as a splash guard. Breath off the acquired air as the rest flows away. so you don't get a lung expansion injury. But use the free flowing air to make it to the surface , You may need to do an emergency ascent. Hmmm So what if the air is rushing out els where?

Have you been there? Have you tried it for real? Probably not!

Go and find a deep tank and try it for real. Like I did in Oceanic tank in
Ottery st mary Devon UK some years ago. Training is fun, Oh yes when you practice the WHAT IF!

Then similar reality at 26 mts in Borneo.

My Dear instructor Tim, used to put dive tanks with no regs into a swimming pool. We swam for a time from tank to tank breathing off the out let by turning the tap on gently . Breathing of the stream of air and then moving on to the next and so forth, breathing out of corse from one to another. Damn good training.

The reality. If a free flow happens . especially on the High pressure hose or an O ring. What the hell do you do from 26 MTS . Or what ever!

1 DONT PANIC! Just take in that last breath or the breath you have. If your Buddy is there . All the Better. if he's not? remember keep the air way open! Do Not hold your breath! you must stay calm but speed is important.

This is what to do. relax take of the BC like you been shown. in your training from the left buckle to passing round the back from Left to Right. turn the air off Immediately!
you may have to breath of the free flow first before. However PUT THE BC IN LIKE A REVERSED Jacket. So the tank is in front of you. Arms through the BC straps and hug the kit. You then have full control to turn the air on and breath off the leek turn off and continue this as you Ascend, air allowing. Ascent for all those who are different organizations. 18 mts per min or 9? well we will go into this later. look it up under ascent rate.

You may even have time to do a safety stop. It works. but you need to train and know how.

Remember to practice the What if . And lets hope you will never have to do so in reality.

I wrote to the The HSE with this 6 years ago never got a reply. I call it the RFFA Method. Or the gary bridger technique.

Safe diving, and practice when on the surface head in the water and breathing those streams of bubbles. Make it a rabbit! And never be over weighted. remember the the weight s are only to off put the positiveness of you equipment on the surface . Read my article on weighting. Thank you.

(c)

There are simpler solutions.

If you're diving with a buddy, have your buddy donate their backup reg and shut down your tank valve. Then make a controlled ascent to the surface.

If you're diving alone, switch to your redundant air source and make a controlled ascent to the surface. If you can reach the free-flowing valve, shut it down. Otherwise, just deal with the distraction and concentrate on making a safe, controlled ascent.

The key to safe diving is to keep your solutions to problem solving as uncomplicated as possible ... the less that CAN go wrong, the better.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DA Aquamaster]

In cold water a "freeze flow" an occur. Turning the valve off for a few minutes is often sufficient to allow the reg to re-warm so that if turned back on it may be useable again, particularly if you have ascended into warmer water.

In that case, switching to an alternate source (buddy or pony) and turning off the valve to the freeflowing reg will preserve the gas and can make it available for a safety stop and/or in general increase the gas reserve for the buddy team.

 

[Joe-Diver]

I wrote to the The HSE with this 6 years ago never got a reply.

Not surprised at all.

There are simpler solutions.

If you're diving with a buddy, have your buddy donate their backup reg and shut down your tank valve. Then make a controlled ascent to the surface.

If you're diving alone, switch to your redundant air source and make a controlled ascent to the surface. If you can reach the free-flowing valve, shut it down. Otherwise, just deal with the distraction and concentrate on making a safe, controlled ascent.

The key to safe diving is to keep your solutions to problem solving as uncomplicated as possible ... the less that CAN go wrong, the better.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bingo.

 

[Anti-Hero]

So we are down 26 mts in a wreck . The hose gets snagged on something sharp. :depressed:

What the hell do you do? :shocked2:
well in cuba courses. with free flow. your told to put the reg in half way in the mouth. use the tung as a splash guard. Breath off the acquired air as the rest flows away. so you don't get a lung expansion injury. But use the free flowing air to make it to the surface , You may need to do an emergency ascent. Hmmm So what if the air is rushing out els where?

Have you been there? Have you tried it for real? Probably not!

Go and find a deep tank and try it for real. Like I did in Oceanic tank in
Ottery st mary Devon UK some years ago. Training is fun, Oh yes when you practice the WHAT IF!

Then similar reality at 26 mts in Borneo.

My Dear instructor Tim, used to put dive tanks with no regs into a swimming pool. We swam for a time from tank to tank breathing off the out let by turning the tap on gently . Breathing of the stream of air and then moving on to the next and so forth, breathing out of corse from one to another. Damn good training.

The reality. If a free flow happens . especially on the High pressure hose or an O ring. What the hell do you do from 26 MTS . Or what ever!

1 DONT PANIC! Just take in that last breath or the breath you have. If your Buddy is there . All the Better. if he's not? remember keep the air way open! Do Not hold your breath! you must stay calm but speed is important.

This is what to do. relax take of the BC like you been shown. in your training from the left buckle to passing round the back from Left to Right. turn the air off Immediately!
you may have to breath of the free flow first before. However PUT THE BC IN LIKE A REVERSED Jacket. So the tank is in front of you. Arms through the BC straps and hug the kit. You then have full control to turn the air on and breath off the leek turn off and continue this as you Ascend, air allowing. Ascent for all those who are different organizations. 18 mts per min or 9? well we will go into this later. look it up under ascent rate.

You may even have time to do a safety stop. It works. but you need to train and know how.

Remember to practice the What if . And lets hope you will never have to do so in reality.

I wrote to the The HSE with this 6 years ago never got a reply. I call it the RFFA Method. Or the gary bridger technique.

Safe diving, and practice when on the surface head in the water and breathing those streams of bubbles. Make it a rabbit! And never be over weighted. remember the the weight s are only to off put the positiveness of you equipment on the surface . Read my article on weighting. Thank you.

(c)

 

[Doc Harry]

Yes, there are simpler solutions. Like your buddy. And proper gas planning.

Having catastrophic gas loss should just be a reason to terminate the dive, not a big out of air emergency if you've planned your gas correctly.

Trying to shift your BCD so that the tank is in front of you introduces more risk of becoming separated from your air supply than it fixes by making the tank easier to reach.

You should be able to reach your valve behind you without shifting your BCD around. If you can't reach your valve behind you - fix the problem so that you can reach it.

I think your RFFA method is dangerous.

 

[rstofer]

I blew an o-ring at 60' on a night dive in high current. The loss of air was no problem, the regulator continued to work just fine. I doubt my ascent rate was as low as it should have been but, in those days, 60 fpm was routine.

Richard