Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

[Kingpatzer]

From a legal standpoint this is a mildly serious incident that can easily be reported to the police.

The instructor assaulted (battered? not sure but one or the other) the student. While he likely had no intent on causing him harm, he was in a hazardous environment where sudden and unexpected actions as he engaged in can easily cause serious harm. As an instructor he is in a position to know that (a) this person is likely a student with little real diving skill or experience and that (b) his actions could dislodge the student's regulator, disorient the student, possibly cause a rapid assent or descent do to improper weighting or buoyancy or just panic this student. Any of which could cause serious harm or death.

If this is a smaller community, I'm sure more than one assistant DA would love to have this one cross his desk, he'd get an easy conviction on at least a gross misdemeanor charge, and the case would be odd enough that he'd get himself in the news for doing virtually no work.

Have the student file charges. The person who did this needs a serious slap on the wrist, and the dive shop he works for needs to learn to be more selective in their instructors.

Even without any action on part of the government authorities, filing charges makes this a much more visible incident for whatever agency certified this instructor or is affiliated with his shop.

 

[Kingpatzer]

While I do think the guy/instructor acted in an unprofessional manner, I have to agree totally with the above statement. I can't even imagine calling the cops about something like this. Now if the guy had turned off his air I could see it. But a push underwater? Let's get real. Even if this did fit the legal definition of the word "assult", I can't imagine anyone calling the cops.

At one point in my life, I worked as a security guard. We had a standing rule - if anyone puts their hands on one of the guards in any way that could possibly be perceived as threatening, the person was to be detained and an assault charge filed. And it did happen.

A buddy of mine was standing in a walkway, and someone wanted to get by him, and lightly shoved him out of the way.

He eventually plead to misdemeanor assault and paid some small fine.

This guy has a "professional" certification. He is expected to act as a professional. What he did is an endangering act. He should be held to account. No instructor should be trying to excuse this guy's actions.

 

[offthewall1]

Follow-Up posting from the OP

I have now had an opportunity to personally speak with the student involved.

He does not wish to nor feel filing charges is appropriate, however he also questions why the incident occurred and his exact words were "I was spooked by it."

More clarification is that he landed on (swam onto) the platform on the opposite side from where the assaulting Instructor and his student where. In his words he was all alone on his side of the platform. He saw those two on the platform and then turned his back to them to look for his dive buddy and Instructor. It was at this point that he felt the shove in the back. Having not expected it... it spooked him. Within 5-10 seconds he reported his (our) Instructor had grabbed him and pulled him away from the other Instructor. According to the student, the entire incident took less than 15 seconds from start to finish.

Again, while he was spooked and it made him uncomfortable... and he did state he would not feel comfortable returning to that quarry... he does not wish for it to be pursued.

I have great appreciation and respect for all of the opinions voiced so far in this thread. I have reported the incident to our training agency so that a record can be maintained and our Instructor is writing an incident report to be shared with our agency hierarchy.

If at some point this summer I return to that quarry, I will personally speak to the owner about the incident... Shop owner to shop owner.

I do believe that the analogy of pushing one off a park bench was great... try that in the world above water and I agree you wouldn't be anything but locked up. To think it is acceptable under water is just wrong... but just as in the case of crimes committed above water - if the witness or the one assaulted doesn't want to press charges or testify... there is little we can do.

Another interesting side note... our student... the one who was shoved... is a lawyer. : )

 

[Kingpatzer]

Since it was witnessed by you, you can file a police report yourself.

I'd honestly talk to the student about wanting to file a report not to have the guy put in jail or fined, but precisely so that it is paid attention to within your agency.

 

[Doc]

1000 hits and 54 replies in 9 hours.

 

[wrybosome]

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?

4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?

Some responses from a noob diver.

1) My situational awareness underwater isn't that great. If someone shoved me off the platform at my quarry my first thought after 'Oh s**t!' would probably be that I got in the way of some serious emergency rescue situation that I didn't notice. If I found out the whole thing was gratuitous and unnecessary then I would be very upset. Probably not upset enough to attack the person, even on land, but I would definitely call him on it and give him a piece of my mind.

If no explanation or apology was coming, no recognition that the instructor was out of line, I would pursue it further myself. I'd take it up with his shop, my shop, NAUI, PADI, whatever. I would expect my shop to do the same. I wouldn't expect them to alienate the quarry where they do all their OW certs, but I would definitely expect that they pursue it in a professional way the best they could. It would piss me off worse if they shrugged it off.

Is the dive shop at the quarry a 3rd party concession, or is it owned by the landowner? I can't imagine the owner in either case wants that sort of reputation.

I mean with checkout dives there are lots of people still working through their fear about mask clearing, buoyancy, etc. That platform is a nice safety blanket.

2 & 3)I'll leave those for instructors.

4) I don't know. Probably not if the quarry owner and shop the idiot worked for treated it like a non-issue. If there was no redress, even verbal, I'd take my money elsewhere. If it was taken seriously I'd come back.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[wrybosome]

If at some point this summer I return to that quarry, I will personally speak to the owner about the incident... Shop owner to shop owner.

Doing it this week would be more appropriate. No offense, but I wouldn't really respect my shop owner If he came out with 'if at some time' on this. I understand the student doesn't want to pursue it, but it's in your interest and everyone elses too.

Again, no offense.

 

[mrlipis]

1000 hits and 54 replies in 9 hours.

This means one of two things. Unemployment is way up or the work production is really suffering.

 

[mase]

Merely for clarification purposes: This is a Battery -The wrongful touching of another. A battery can be prosecuted both criminaly and civily. Not saying either avenue is the proper course of action; talking or in the alternative butt kicking are also considerations.

 

[Scott]

If at some point this summer I return to that quarry, I will personally speak to the owner about the incident... Shop owner to shop owner.

This must not be that important to you if you're going to wait until summer to talk with the other owner. I would get this cleared up while it's still fresh in everyone's mind.