Hey?! Was I rude here....?

[geokr]

But then, I remember the dives that experienced people "sacrificed" to make me the diver that I am.

Exactly. We are all "students" until the last time we leave the water. The one who thinks he knows it all is the most dangerous person to dive with regardless of how thick his logbook is or how many certifications he has. It doesn't hurt anyone's valuable dive time a whole lot to take a less experienced diver along once in a while. In fact, you owe it every now and then, just as someone was as generous with you once. You had a chance to pass on some of your "vast experience" to someone who singled you out because he thought you might be a good teacher and mentor. He had the good sense to ask for a little help and to confide in you, Don, in order to learn what you might have to pass on. Your response was to publicly blow him off in front of the whole board.

How wrong he was.

"Remember the people you step on going up the ladder because you're going to meet them again on the way down"

 

[boscobc]

In this time of political correctness why is it considered rude to state the truth?
If one does not want to hear a truthfull answer then don't ask. Plain, simple & to the point.
Dandy when diving w/Blue Angel be sure to look for the Gringo with a Texas tattoo over his heart. Give him the what for and be as big of a PITA as possible. Then tell him it came from Uncle Bruce.
See you in Coz.

Bosco

 

[RonFrank]

Well, I have seen buddy pairs rearranged at that point of a Coz dive No, I descend and ascend with my buddies, even when they're slow to descend or early to ascend. If one quits me, I won't dive with him/her again.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. That was, I had a buddy that I came to Coz with from Denver. HE was my buddy. The other three were also tight, so they were a team. Honestly, after one day on the boat with all five of us (four dives), we were doing more of a group dive vs. strict buddies simply because we all dove very well together.

However the point was the OP made these decisions. I'm not going to take responsibility for a stranger on a dive vacation when I have a buddy just so that OP can pocket $65. However I believe the diver misrepresented their skills, so I'm not going to blame the OP either. All worked out fine.. so water under the bridge.

 

[lowviz]

Jeez, DandyDon outed a PM -Unforgivable. (but mischevious -look up rogue)
The OP (or PM'er) was looking for a better vacation experience, -he took a shot and missed. -reread the OP. I call it an even draw.

If we were talking about a noob who was seeking real dive advice and got dissed on the greet, yes, I'd be very pissed.

 

[geokr]

Jeez, DandyDon outed a PM -Unforgivable. (but mischevious -look up rogue)
The OP (or PM'er) was looking for a better vacation experience, -he took a shot and missed. -reread the OP. I call it an even draw.

If we were talking about a noob who was seeking real dive advice and got dissed on the greet, yes, I'd be very pissed.

1rogue Pronunciation:\ˈrōg\ Function:noun Etymologyrigin unknownDate:15611 : vagrant , tramp 2 : a dishonest or worthless person : scoundrel 3 : a mischievous person : scamp 4 : a horse inclined to shirk or misbehave 5 : an individual exhibiting a chance and usually inferior biological variation

Nothing to be proud of there. Look, I think the deeper reason of why Dennis asked was exactly that he WAS looking for some dive advice and anything else that could have helped him get a little more experience, not just because he needed a dive buddy. He asked Don and Don refused and his reasons for refusing do not have to be justified to anyone. It's his perogative who he dives with. But Don was asked a private question and he chose to provide a public refusal. No matter how honest the reasoning about not wanting to do any "newbie care taking", and "I am not patient about diving with anyone who can't or won't keep up" I think it only served to alienate an up and coming diver rather than provide any good counsel. Maybe that subtlety was lost on some. Look up "tactless".

 

[ggunn]

It's merely my opinion, but I think that some of us are making too big a deal of this.

 

[geokr]

It's merely my opinion, but I think that some of us are making too big a deal of this.

You might be right, Gordon, and it would be true all the way around, here included. The one thing that has impressed me about this forum is the pleasant, free exchange of useful and friendly advice and experience that has been shared by so many I've run into here on a wide range of topics. This is, in many ways, a place to learn from our fellow divers and we all have something to learn. The genesis of this thread was a breach of privacy and a not so subtle "you can't run with the big dogs" line of bogus reasoning that I felt compelled, after many, many years as an instructor myself, to call BS on it. You're right. It has gone too far for what it's worth.....me - out.

 

[DandyDon]

I read this and wondered how I would have responded, if I had gotten a PM like that.

It IS hard, when you are taking vacation time and paying for charter dives, to consider setting yourself up for a short or frustrating or (God forbid) scary dive by diving with a new and unknown diver. And I also agree that some of the dives I did in Coz were not what I would consider beginner dives AT ALL.

On the other hand, one of the best ways for new divers to learn is to buddy up with experienced people. But they have to pick those people carefully -- not everyone WANTS to mentor new divers, and not everyone has the skills or the temperament to do it. Someone who is plugged into a viewfinder for the whole dive is not a good buddy for a new diver, and Don, I think you were honest enough to say that. (One could discuss whether someone who is plugged into a viewfinder the whole dive is a buddy for anyone . . . )

Yeah, it can be fun to help a newbie - depending on situation. I'd probly be more agreeable on a longer visit, and/or with someone staying at the same hotel, diving the same charter, etc. I think he'd noticed me planning a day or two with Aldora, but those days are looking at sites not at all for the newer diver. I trust that Aldora will take good care of him on different boats & sites, matching him up appropriately.

Most of my dives have been with boat pick buddies over the years, and in some of those cases I left the water thinking "Gawd, I'm glad we're both not that bad!" - a couples of those times thinking about my own screw-ups.

I think, if someone wrote like that to me on Coz, I'd invite them to do a little dive off the seawall at the Aldora Villa. In ten feet of water, we could assess one another and work on some buoyancy and communication skills (and there are things to see there, too!) If the result was satisfactory to both of us, I'd "sacrifice" a day on a boat. After all, I'd still get to dive, and to see things, even though the dives might be a bit shorter than planned.

But then, I remember the dives that experienced people "sacrificed" to make me the diver that I am.

Hey, diving off of the beach by Blue Angel would be fun with a newbie, but I really don't know where Aldora is. Google maps says they're north of the ferry pier, but that's not dependable. They're not on my Can-Do map and don't have a map on their site? It's too bad that he's having to commute from PDC then rush back to his wife there, but you do what you can at times.

When we were in Tahiti, some of the people we were diving with were supposed to be very experienced/advanced divers. They were idiots, endangering themselves and some of the other divers. You will never know what kind of diver someone is until you actually dive with them, and it is not worth the risk to a new diver. We need someone who makes responsible decisions and knows how to help when it is needed.

Haha, good point Caligirl. I could be one of those hazards. I do like to think I survived my wilder days and have become more of a prudent diver; it took some doing tho - not my nature.

 

[Mawg]

Exactly. We are all "students" until the last time we leave the water. The one who thinks he knows it all is the most dangerous person to dive with regardless of how thick his logbook is or how many certifications he has. It doesn't hurt anyone's valuable dive time a whole lot to take a less experienced diver along once in a while. In fact, you owe it every now and then, just as someone was as generous with you once. You had a chance to pass on some of your "vast experience" to someone who singled you out because he thought you might be a good teacher and mentor. He had the good sense to ask for a little help and to confide in you, Don, in order to learn what you might have to pass on. Your response was to publicly blow him off in front of the whole board.

How wrong he was.

"Remember the people you step on going up the ladder because you're going to meet them again on the way down"

BLAH BLAH BLAH .......... Biggest crock of shydookie I've yet to read on this website.