Shadow Divers: John Chatterton's Interview with ScubaBoard

[divingdesigns.com]

I read the book several years ago and loved it as well.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

I read the book several years ago- reread it again as soon as I finished it and have read it a couple more times since then....I can't put it down for too long wihout picking it up again...in fact it stays on my bedside table.

 

[Chatterton]

Thank you for the very nice comments on Shadow Divers. Rob spent about 18 months working on the book. That was about 15 months researching, and then a month or so writing, and another month in re-writes. His dedication to his writing mirrored the relationship that Richie and I have with our diving. He is an incredibly talented and focused guy, and we were unbelievably fortunate to work with him. We have the utmost respect for Rob, and he is a good guy as well.

Thanks again,

JC

 

[Couv]

Hello John,

First off, thank you for your military service; and thank you for taking the time to answer questions in this forum.

I very much enjoyed SD and found it to be an excellent read; however, I have a question regarding Robert Kurson's belief that helium mixtures were unfamiliar to you prior to employing trimix diving the U-Who. In one of the earlier chapters he mentions that you attended a commercial diving school and were employed in the commercial diving business during the same time you were diving the unknown sub. (I went to a commercial diving school and spent a couple of years in the trade, hence my question.) Certainly, you learned about HeO2 in diving school (possibly saw it or used it on the job) but, it seems that RK was under the impression you originally viewed it as a new-fangled and untested voodoo gas. Please tell me you did not sleep through your mixed gas lessons.

I know RK could not get everything 100% correct and suspect it was just his impression, but could you clarify that point?

Thank you,

couv

 

[sandmanz32]

I too feel as if i must comment. I just finished the book, and Shadow Divers was EXCELLENT! i was captivated and couldnt put it down. Read it in roughly 10 hours. You guy must have been truly obcessed and methodical about the whole thing. Your love for diving is one that i wish i could find in a dive buddy, lol!

 

[Chatterton]

C,

Thank you for the nice comments. I appreciate it.

I attended Divers Academy and graduated in March of 1983. Part of the curriculum was HeO2 Theory. At the time, Heliox was being used in commercial diving, as well asin military diving. Although there was some use for SS suface splashes, the focus was primarily the relatively new idea of saturation diving. All of the Heliox tables were proprietary.

For the U-boat, Heliox, surface supply, and saturation were out of the question due to cost involved, however Trimix seemed like a reasonable alternative? We were not inventing any science, but we couldn't dive like the military or commercial divers either. We needed to bastardize what they were doing, and make it fit our needs. The cave diving community had begun using Trimix, and their usage was much more in line with what we wanted to do in the Northeast. Billy Deans in Florida was also beginning to use Trimix, starting to talk about it, and he would eventually go on to co-found the Tek certification agency IAND. In 1991, almost all other than air gas usage was underground, and disowned by the mainstream. Both the commercial and miltary guys thought we were nuts to use helium in a "toy" like Scuba.

There is a significant gap between understanding Heliox Theory and the actual application of Trimix for wreck diving, not the least of which is the intorduction of a third gas. We had to address issues like gas selection (percentages of both Trimix and Nitrox deco gases), gas mixing and testing, gas management, as well as the most difficult element, dive tables.

There were three sources for individuals to get Trimix tables, at roughly $100 for a single gas lineup, for a single depth, and for a single bottom time. Every time we wanted to extend a BT, change a mix, conduct a repet, or dive to a different Max Depth, we needed to go back to one of the 3 table experts and have another table written for us.

The first decompression software I used was MIG Plan, some time in 1993. It was DOS based and cost me $35, if I remember correctly. The value of having our own deco software was not so much the capability of cutting tables, but learning about Trimix diving by cutting endless numbers of tables from the safety of one's home.

Eventually there would be IAND, IANTD, ANDI, and TDI to set Tek standards, but at the time we did not have that sort of guidance. The military and commercials guys did not believe in what we were doing either. Even after the application of Tek standards, much of the maintream still considered Trimix to be VooDoo Gas. I think the human instinct is to resist change?

Cheers

JC

Hello John,

First off, thank you for your military service; and thank you for taking the time to answer questions in this forum.

I very much enjoyed SD and found it to be an excellent read; however, I have a question regarding Robert Kurson's belief that helium mixtures were unfamiliar to you prior to employing trimix diving the U-Who. In one of the earlier chapters he mentions that you attended a commercial diving school and were employed in the commercial diving business during the same time you were diving the unknown sub. (I went to a commercial diving school and spent a couple of years in the trade, hence my question.) Certainly, you learned about HeO2 in diving school (possibly saw it or used it on the job) but, it seems that RK was under the impression you originally viewed it as a new-fangled and untested voodoo gas. Please tell me you did not sleep through your mixed gas lessons.

I know RK could not get everything 100% correct and suspect it was just his impression, but could you clarify that point?

Thank you,

couv

 

[mike_s]

John...

I have a question about something that was reference din Shaddow Divers.

In Chapter One, Kurson states tht Nagle put together a group of him and five divers to recover the bell of the Andrea Doria, which they found.....

According to the book, they had an agreement that Nagle owned half the bell and the other five divers own the other half and the last man living amoung them would own it outright.

so... my question is, with the death of Bill Nagle several years ago, who had the bell now? or is it in a museum?

I'm just curious. I wasn't sure if it was in private hands now or on public display in a museum for example.


I also see that it's been on display in exhibits as shown by pictures on Michael Barnette's site
Treasures of the Andrea Doria . But I don't think that was a permanent museum display.

Thanks... - Mike

 

[Chatterton]

Bill put together the trip, it was his boat (the first Seeker), and I think he even paid for the fuel? He wanted half, with the other guys splitting up the other half, or 10% each. As I understood it, they had some sort of Last Man Standing agreement. Even when Bill was alive, the bell used to travel around and each of the guys would occasionally take possession of the bell to display at various functions.

The last time I saw it, John Moyer had it. He has an extensive personal collection of Doria atrifacts and collectables, and is very much involved in the history of the wreck. John may have made some sort of side deal with the other divers, but I really don't know. It will be interesting to see who the Last Man is?

Cheers

JC

John...

I have a question about something that was reference din Shaddow Divers.

In Chapter One, Kurson states tht Nagle put together a group of him and five divers to recover the bell of the Andrea Doria, which they found.....

According to the book, they had an agreement that Nagle owned half the bell and the other five divers own the other half and the last man living amoung them would own it outright.

so... my question is, with the death of Bill Nagle several years ago, who had the bell now? or is it in a museum?

I'm just curious. I wasn't sure if it was in private hands now or on public display in a museum for example.


I also see that it's been on display in exhibits as shown by pictures on Michael Barnette's site
Treasures of the Andrea Doria . But I don't think that was a permanent museum display.

Thanks... - Mike

 

[Rick Inman]

The first decompression software I used was MIG Plan, some time in 1993. It was DOS based and cost me $35, if I remember correctly. The value of having our own deco software was not so much the capability of cutting tables, but learning about Trimix diving by cutting endless numbers of tables from the safety of one's home.

And of course, now we have "proven" software like V-Planner, which makes it as easy as downloading and punching in the plan to cut tables, with almost unlimited parameters, including mixing formulas, lost gas scenarios, etc. Makes you wonder if it isn't almost too easy (ie, letting the software run your dive without knowledge as to the "why" and "how").

But the value of learning about deco profiles by sitting in your living room running a countless verity of simulated dives hasn't changed.

I've also seen divers with V-Planner loaded on their Liquid Vision computers jump in the water and let their computers run their dives.
I think the balance may be in knowing the how and why, being able to plan the dive using the math (gas planning, tables, etc), have the experience to know in your head roughly what a good deco would be on the fly, and then using good software like VP to cut the tables.

John, I would be interested to know your take on Ratio (on the fly) Deco??

 

[RiverRat]

I've also seen divers with V-Planner loaded on their Liquid Vision computers jump in the water and let their computers run their dives.

Rick
If I'm not mistaken, the computer is not "running" the dive. It's just merely reading off your pre-cut dive plan. You still have to think about the plan, design it and cut it. The computer just displays it same as reading a slate or whatever with your plan on it. And of course you should have a hard cut plan in your pocket as well as lost gas plans, + or - time and depth, thirds, rock bottom etc. Now if the computer has the ability to "override" that plan, well that's a different story. Maybe someone that's got one can comment. A dive buddy of mine that I've been tech training with is looking into one. I hope it's what I think it is