DIR Halcyon question

[MonkSeal]

Heh.. I was afraid of this but YOU SEE that I didn't ask for general advice nor did I ask "hey what should I get" then reject it. I asked "Is it a requirement to use halcyon or is it just that halcyon is preferred?" and "Will I be prevented from taking a fundies class if I have, say, a single shoulder release or something."

I asked a few pretty specific questions that required a yes or no answer and maybe some reasons as to why. FORTUNATELY I had some people that PMed me or left messages that gave me those answers as well as some that gave arguments as to why Halcyon was preferred or pointed me to areas that would answer MY questions.

It's more of a waste of time to assume that because I don't agree with YOU, that I'm wasting MY time.

Your reply shows your prejudice. It looks like you've just waited answer like mine to interpret it as "DIR divers require to agree with them and not to ask questions". I didn't reply to your original question; I simply made a comment to sentence I quoted (regarding discount to OMS equipment). Your original questions were answered earlier, there's no need to repeat same answers. I don't ask you to agree with me and I don't need that. I've just tried to be honest.

 

[HullBlister]

Semantics.

Hair splitting.

All threads eventually get there.

Blister

 

[b1gcountry]

I successfully completed fundies without a single piece of Halcyon gear on me!

It's my own personal quest. Well, maybe not...

 

[robertarak]

Clammy, you have gotten some good answers and the ones about sitting in on a Fundies class or talking to an instuctor in area are right on the money. Let me just add a thing or two. Sitting in a class and talking to the instuctor may also set you up for dive with mentors or divers who dive the DIR/GUE style and can really help you prepare for Fundies, or Tech1 or Cave1 or what ever direction you wish to take. I will also say that with GUE/DIR/etc., you really have to have an open mind and and learn to stop and learn. Your comments about the bungied wing reflect then fact that you are not ready to learn, or be taught. You know you can't use it for Fundies. Why do you want to take Fundies? It seems you already disagree with the teachings. You should be asking questions like, "Why is it not acceptable to have a bungies wing". This is how you learn.

I will go as far as answer that question, before you even ask it, in an effort to help. ONE (just one) of the reasons is in case of wing failure. It is possible that a wing ruptures or slipts a seam or for some other reason starts to leak air. I think you understand the safety concern of a leaking wing without me explaining it. Now should this happen, you have to deal with it. One of the ways you deal with it is to minimize gas loss of the wing. You manage the gas bubble so that it is away from the leak. By doing this, very little, if any, of the gas leaks out and you are able to safely make your exit with your team. Now, if your wing is all bungies up, one little leak anywhere and the bungie will force all the air out FAST, and they is nothing you can do about it.

Just food for though. There are usually good reasons for things, you just have to find out.

 

[robertarak]

Three: Mr. Kane, Marc Hall, and Karim (whose last name I can't recall).

Karim Hamza. You know how those GUE instructor are, they already have a big head, let's not inflate that by letting him be know by just one name, like Prince, or Madona.


(Of course I am kidding. Karim is my mentor and instructor...and friend.)

 

[RTodd]

Halcyon is the easiest to recommend because most (not all) of the gear they sell is DIR compliant out of the box. This is less true (to varying degrees) with all other manufactuers who, for understandable monetary reasons, cater to non-DIR divers as well. OMS arguably has the least amount of DIR compliant gear and probably the highest ratio of strokeriphic crap. The advice your are getting to go talk to a DIR instructor before buying stuff should be headed.

To be up front about my bias, I am fortunate in that, despite having access to insder pricing on most gear, I can afford to simply walk in a store and buy say a new backplate and wing if I need it and don't have time to go to the hassle of getting "the deal." When I was a studen serving time as a dive shop monkey and on a very limited budget, I bought tons of substandard crap because that is what I could get a deal on. In the long run, doing that cost me a fortune and I have crates of dive gear in my garage that I am too embarrased to push off on some other unsuspecting diver. Buy the right stuff once even if it will cost you more.

And as a final word of caution, if you really want to pursue DIR diving the best way to do it is to go diving with other DIR divers. Showing up in OMS gear will make it harder to get DIR divers, particularly newly minted ones, to dive with you.

 

[TSandM]

Thank you -- I just couldn't remember Karim's last name. I've actually met Mr. Kane and Mr. Hall, so it's easier to remember them.

Clammy, if you have your mind set on what you are going to buy, then buy it. You know it will be frowned upon (if it's even permitted) in any GUE class. I suspect you may have known that before posting. There are many gear choices out there that are not Halcyon, but are quite satisfactory to meet GUE equipment requirements and recommendations.

If you buy a wing which is an appropriate lift size for the diving you are doing, then you CAN remove the bungies at a later time. But I sure don't understand why you want to dive something for recreational diving that you intend to jettison when you get to technical training. If it isn't advisable for diving where the risks are higher, why is it acceptable or necessary for diving anywhere?

The bottom line is that, if you are contemplating training with GUE, you should take GUE's advice, and contact an instructor before purchasing equipment.

A good buy on scuba equipment is only a good buy if the equipment you get at the reduced price is equipment that is designed and works well, suits you, and is useful in the long term. Otherwise, you end up spending much more money in the end.

 

[Clammy]

Your reply shows your prejudice. It looks like you've just waited answer like mine to interpret it as "DIR divers require to agree with them and not to ask questions". I didn't reply to your original question; I simply made a comment to sentence I quoted (regarding discount to OMS equipment). Your original questions were answered earlier, there's no need to repeat same answers. I don't ask you to agree with me and I don't need that. I've just tried to be honest.

I never once said I WASN'T going to get a halcyon, I just said I was leaning towards OMS for the reasons I stated, and this thread already likely changed my mind about the single shoulder release and go with a continuous harness! And, no, I didn't say DIR people require me to agree with them, just you. You are the one that assumed I was talking about DIR divers in general. I just come to expect one every time I ask a question in regards to DIR. Thankfully, everyone else has been extremely helpful.
I never rejected anyone elses comments either. I simply clarified where I was leaning and why.

If you felt that my original questions were answered earlier, there was no need to put your little BTW comment about advice, which clearly was unwarranted. How you decided I was prejudice is beyond me. You would think the very act of me asking before the purchase and WELL before I even take the class to make sure would tell you that I'm not. I'm not even on the fence about whether I want to take fundies or not. I definitely want to when I'm ready. I just dont' think I am right now, but I like to find things out as I get there, not right before.

 

[Clammy]

Thank you -- I just couldn't remember Karim's last name. I've actually met Mr. Kane and Mr. Hall, so it's easier to remember them.

Clammy, if you have your mind set on what you are going to buy, then buy it. You know it will be frowned upon (if it's even permitted) in any GUE class. I suspect you may have known that before posting. There are many gear choices out there that are not Halcyon, but are quite satisfactory to meet GUE equipment requirements and recommendations.

If you buy a wing which is an appropriate lift size for the diving you are doing, then you CAN remove the bungies at a later time. But I sure don't understand why you want to dive something for recreational diving that you intend to jettison when you get to technical training. If it isn't advisable for diving where the risks are higher, why is it acceptable or necessary for diving anywhere?

The bottom line is that, if you are contemplating training with GUE, you should take GUE's advice, and contact an instructor before purchasing equipment.

A good buy on scuba equipment is only a good buy if the equipment you get at the reduced price is equipment that is designed and works well, suits you, and is useful in the long term. Otherwise, you end up spending much more money in the end.

Hey TS&M,

You're right, I did suspect that it would be frowned upon, I just wasn't sure it would be out right rejected or not. My mind isn't completely set, but OMS just happens to be the better deal for me at this time and with my situation. Thanks (and to everyone else as well) for pointing me to the instructors and websites, I'll just have to ask what configurations are acceptable which I would think is more important than which brands.

As far as the bungies go, I dive a dry suit so I have backup buoyancy right now. I understand potential failings of them and when it comes time to, I'm perfectly happy to cut them off. I guess I'm one of those people that usually buys more than I need and then trims it down later. I just happen to like the option I guess and until I'm ready to take fundies and do cave and tech, I just feel like it's not a big deal in a regular single tank, no deco open water environment. I would think it reduces drag. But, like I said, the price difference was negligable and really it's just having the grommets there for the bungies vs not having it there. If I have to cut them for the class, I won't argue about it, I expect it...

 

[cave_diver]

As outlined is several responses before, the requirement does not specifically say that you have to use Halcyon gear. However, if you read the DIR-requirements careful, you will find that there are not many choices left. You can certainly chose Apeks over ScubaPro, if you prefer, but you will run into problems with most harnesses (just to name one example) from manufacturers other than Halcyon, since they have at least one quick release built in.