I Want My Valves All The Way

[DandyDon]

I think that Padi taught me to open my valve slowly at first, Spg turned away, then crank it open, then back 1/4 turn to prevent valve some problem - see a few quotes selected from an old thread below. Do other agencies still teach this? Is it really important?

Sorry, I can find way too many instances reported in which the quarter turn mistake left a diver gasping & panicking at depth when they couldn't get enough air. These reports are just too common, see them frequently here on SB, and I saw it happen to a gal half way down the Belize Blue Hole.

One more time, my valves will be all the way.

All the way open preferably, but if someone screw ups with lefty-loosy, righty-tighty - I know instantly. And my regular bud who turns screwdrivers every day has screwed up on me, but it was all the way, instant fix. I also like to double check that at 15 ft along with a quick bubble and gear check on descent while he works on his ears. Hehe, he was the BF/buddy of the OOA gal I saw in Belize. I'm gonna remind him of all this again on the way to Cozumel Saturday.

Could I damage a tank valve? I don't care. Tank valves are cheap enough, hell I've had one rebuilt once. OOA at depth is scary any way you look at it. I stress to the helpful boat mates that if they really feel obliged to touch my valves, all the way or hands off please. Oh we did determine that the gal in Belize had hers chocked by a boat mate after any check my regular bud, then her BF/bud might have done - and they didn't do the 15 foot checks that I like so much now.

I carry a pony on most dives, BTW: All deeper dives, all Cozumel dives after being pulled off the top of a wall on a dive planned to 30 ft down to 100 ft by current, and that valve is all the way open in the water. I know, most who carry them leave them all the way off; I like mine all the way open with an open invitation to all of my boat buds: "Need air? Grab my pony reg as it'll be open, or my alternate reg - just not the one in my mouth as I use a Manta mouthpiece and it won't come out. Take one of the easy ones; no need to signal; I'll understand."

This is one of those things that is argued endlessly.

When I learned to dive we were taught the open fully turn back 1/4 turn. The idea was that someone checking your valve would turn it in the open direction and feel it move easly and stop showing that it was open. They would then turn it back the 1/4 turn so the next person would get the same result.

There really is no mechanical reason on scuba tank valves to have it fully open or slightly closed it is just for operation.

Now there are valves, mainly in chemical plants and nuclear power systems that have a back seat. These valves are opened and set to the open or back seat with a torque wrench. This keeps primary coolant pressure off of the valve stem packing. Not a consideration in scuba air.

Damn I'm sorry I never got to dive with Pipedope. He was cool, but already out when I got going I think, and now gone.

The Tradition may have started in the Navy Diving. I'm not assuming that All handling of Pressure cylinders are from the navy diving but, that the training for divers may have started with the training of Navy divers. As the USN diving manule says: " ...the valve must not be used in the fully open position as it may stick or be stripped if force is used to open a valve that is incorrectly believed to be closed." Vol. 2-7-4.4
/b--------

Originally Posted by friscuba
I've had one or two engineers over the years tell me that backing off a quarter turn is standard procedure with all valving, not just scuba. We should probably be asking engineers this question, not divers.
Steve

A lot discussed already but if you fully open a valve to the stop you are stressing the valve stem and possibly leading to a valve jam due to a diffenrtial pressure or temperature change. Whilst you may have carefully opened your own valve to the stop so it just hits someone else or some foreign object may hit the valve and wind it hard against the stop. Now you go along to test the position of the valve and find that it is tight, the assumption is that it is closed, with most scube this isnt a problem as with the valve fully open it is hard to release the first stage, however it could happen leading to danegous consequences. This can lead to slighlty more hazardous occurneces in petrochemical plants where high pressure gasses are involved - and as happened to a colleague who was trying to repair a pump at a sewage farm with very embarassing results, he assumed valve was off and opened up a main sewage line, the worst part was the fact he had to go back into the room to close the valve having run away once to get away form the spray :11:

So the best solution is to fully open then back off 1/4 or 1/2 turn that way valves tight to the touch are closed valves, loose valves are open and by a slight twist it can be confirmed they are nearly fully open.

YMMV

There are also some specialist valves in service which are designed to be cranked onto the back stop as there is a second seat, but these are usually tagged or lablled

 

[Geoff_H]

All the way open preferably, but if someone screw ups with lefty-loosy, righty-tighty - I know instantly.

I don't see how. If someone is fiddling with your valve behind your back, then he will not be adhering to any of your personal rules that he knows nothing about. You can instantly know if a Dandydon opened/closed valve is open, but you can't know if someone has fiddled with it afterwards.

I always purge my primary for a few seconds *immediately* before entering the water from a boat, that way I am 100% sure my tank valve is open and a well meaning DM or buddy hasn't turned it off accidentally without my knowledge.

 

[DandyDon]

I don't see how. If someone is fiddling with your valve behind your back, then he will not be adhering to any of your personal rules that he knows nothing about. You can instantly know if a Dandydon opened/closed valve is open, but you can't know if someone has fiddled with it afterwards.

I always purge my primary for a few seconds *immediately* before entering the water from a boat, that way I am 100% sure my tank valve is open and a well meaning DM or buddy hasn't turned it off accidentally without my knowledge.

And they will, just as your putting your fins on, I know. That's why I said: "I stress to the helpful boat mates that if they really feel obliged to touch my valves, all the way or hands off please." I even ask them just before I step off: "Is my valve all the way open??"

And then there is the 15 foot extra check I like to much. Boat pick buddies don't seem to mind. I may not drop as fast as Cozumel DMs may like, but my regular buddy has to stop and work on his ears anyway.

 

[Geoff_H]

And they will, just as your putting your fins on, I know. That's why I said: "I stress to the helpful boat mates that if they really feel obliged to touch my valves, all the way or hands off please." I even ask them just before I step off: "Is my valve all the way open??"

If you are going to take the time to tell every DM/deck hand on the boat to fully open your valves and then ask them again before you step off.... I think you might as well just check yourself before you enter the water? Simply reach back and give it a quick twist.

Removes any element of mis-understanding or mistake, takes 3 seconds and is foolproof - requiring no input from anyone but yourself. Much better than hectoring divemasters, at least in my view.

 

[El Orans]

I still do the quarter turn back but I also make sure that I can reach my valves myself.

 

[Geoff_H]

I know, most who carry them leave them all the way off; I like mine all the way open with an open invitation to all of my boat buds: "Need air? Grab my pony reg as it'll be open, or my alternate reg - just not the one in my mouth as I use a Manta mouthpiece and it won't come out. Take one of the easy ones; no need to signal; I'll understand."

By the way, Manta mouthpieces - I think most panicked OOG divers are going straight for the regulator in someone elses mouth. May not be rational, may not be the smartest choice but I completely believe that is where most divers who go unexpectedly out of gas are going to be looking/snatching.

I would prefer an "instabuddy" primary too, as I know it won't have been dragged through sand, banged against rocks or been entangled in soft corals. Hopefully it is something I will never have to worry about this (going OOG) nad having to mug an instabuddy.

That's one reason why I dive a long hose and donate the primary.

 

[DandyDon]

By the way, Manta mouthpieces - I think most panicked OOG divers are going straight for the regulator in someone elses mouth. May not be rational, may not be the smartest choice but I completely believe that is where most divers who go unexpectedly out of gas are going to be looking/snatching.

I would prefer an "instabuddy" primary too, as I know it won't have been dragged through sand, banged against rocks or been entangled in soft corals. Hopefully it is something I will never have to worry about this (going OOG) nad having to mug an instabuddy.

That's one reason why I dive a long hose and donate the primary.

You probly don't wear dentures. If I lose the one in my mouth, okay - I'll grab another, but I really ask that they don't go there.

BTW, always had a hard time reaching my valves myself, but I'll work on that.

 

[Geoff_H]

You probly don't wear dentures. If I lose the one in my mouth, okay - I'll grab another, but I really ask that they don't go there.

BTW, always had a hard time reaching my valves myself, but I'll work on that.

Two fair reasons... even with a Manta or Seacure mouthpiece I think most divers are going to get a reg in their mouth if their lives depend on it, and if it is a little uncomfortable until they get to the unlimited air supply on the surface it's not the end of the world.

 

[DandyDon]

Ok, back to leaving my valves all the way...

 

[Charlie99]

That's why I said: "I stress to the helpful boat mates that if they really feel obliged to touch my valves, all the way or hands off please." I even ask them just before I step off: "Is my valve all the way open??"

If someone, anyone, touches my valve I simply reach up behind me and open it. It should open 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn and hit a stop. Then I pull it just a tiny bit closed.

If you plan on keeping your valves all the way open, your method of checking should always be to close the valve a bit, rather than to check to feel that it is fully opened. Then after you have closed the valve a bit, then run it back full open.

The potential problem is that if someone, without you knowing, has cranked the valve closed really hard, you might think that it is stuck hard open when in reality it is stuck closed. Testing the valve by spinning it clockwise until you get movement will avoid that potential error.

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The key is that when you test a valve, you should both get it to move and also get it to hit a stop. Both your method and mine will work if you do the proper test.

Charlie Allen