Near-DIR diving: Are there DIR things you would probably never do?

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Given multiple choices and walking down the list of pros and cons, evaluating each independently and again in the context of other options, a clear advantage can be seen in one over the others. DIR divers choose to follow DIR protocol and do so out of a full understanding of each option and its relevance and impact to the system.

Resorting to comparing DIR to nazi Germany is about as ignorant as it is desperate.

You are correct, I do not like being dictated to regarding what mixes I will breathe. I believe the issue of telling others what to do was resolved by the capitulation of the Nazi party during WW2.

They had their strong points as well, just like GUE-DIR.

And they, like GUE-DIR, took it upon themselves to tell others what to do, or else.

And many others simply did as they were told. There will always be many who are simply content to do as they are told. This gives them some sense of security, I believe. A false sense, to be sure, but a sense even so.

Enough said, already.:)
 
I don't think he was comparing to DIR at this point, I think he was comparing to a university Diving Control Board (which is an even more ignorant comparison, if that were possible).
 
It has loaded their divers with standardized gasses while at the same time stifling their ability to make best-mix calculations and decisions by themselves.

"stifiling their ability to make best-mix calculations"?

anyone that passed algebra I in high school should be able to do best-mix calculations.

wake me up when you get to group theory, abstract algebra or tensor calculus...

unlike you, i don't need a scuba course to teach me basic mathematics...
 
I know this will probably be ignored in the wake of name calling that is sure to continue, but I'll post it anyway.

My only issues so far with the DIR approach are:

1. Not using air as an "acceptable" gas. I'm not very concerned about this one since I don't think anyone really takes this tenet very seriously, and I've even had a GUE instructor give me an air fill and tell us "for the dives we're doing it doesn't make any difference"

2. Max END 100'. I like the idea of using helium to clear your head, but I won't give up diving on some of the local wrecks. Until I take Tech 1 at least, I'll still be using my "Chicago Mix" to dive the Milwaukee and Wisconsin.

3. Solo Diving is just relaxing. There's just nothing like a nice leisurely dive by yourself. Kind of like a long walk in the woods just to see what you see. I think you can buy into the team approach, and still like to do a relaxing solo dive when you want to.
 
I know this will probably be ignored in the wake of name calling that is sure to continue, but I'll post it anyway.

My only issues so far with the DIR approach are:

1. Not using air as an "acceptable" gas. I'm not very concerned about this one since I don't think anyone really takes this tenet very seriously, and I've even had a GUE instructor give me an air fill and tell us "for the dives we're doing it doesn't make any difference"

2. Max END 100'. I like the idea of using helium to clear your head, but I won't give up diving on some of the local wrecks. Until I take Tech 1 at least, I'll still be using my "Chicago Mix" to dive the Milwaukee and Wisconsin.

3. Solo Diving is just relaxing. There's just nothing like a nice leisurely dive by yourself. Kind of like a long walk in the woods just to see what you see. I think you can buy into the team approach, and still like to do a relaxing solo dive when you want to.

Pretty much ... although I won't go much below about 120 without some helium ... but I've always been a cheap drunk.

Been "slapped" a few times for my occasional solo dives ... no biggie, I still enjoy the peace and solitude from time to time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Pretty much ... although I won't go much below about 120 without some helium ... but I've always been a cheap drunk.

Been "slapped" a few times for my occasional solo dives ... no biggie, I still enjoy the peace and solitude from time to time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I've never pushed it much below 120', so I guess I'm a cheap drunk too. A couple times I've gotten nervous at around 105' (Cove 2), but I was pretty cold and jet lagged that dive too...my wife starts to get funny around 80', and TS&M has said she's had hallucinations at that depth, so...

Tom
 
I know this will probably be ignored in the wake of name calling that is sure to continue, but I'll post it anyway.

My only issues so far with the DIR approach are:

1. Not using air as an "acceptable" gas. I'm not very concerned about this one since I don't think anyone really takes this tenet very seriously, and I've even had a GUE instructor give me an air fill and tell us "for the dives we're doing it doesn't make any difference"

2. Max END 100'. I like the idea of using helium to clear your head, but I won't give up diving on some of the local wrecks. Until I take Tech 1 at least, I'll still be using my "Chicago Mix" to dive the Milwaukee and Wisconsin.

3. Solo Diving is just relaxing. There's just nothing like a nice leisurely dive by yourself. Kind of like a long walk in the woods just to see what you see. I think you can buy into the team approach, and still like to do a relaxing solo dive when you want to.

I agree with all of the above, yet still prefer the DIR system when it comes to anything more complex. Air vs. Nitrox is pretty much universally ignored, I think, unless you have access to super-cheap Nitrox or ONLY do complex Nitrox-worthy dives. It's just not worth adding $12 per tank in costs to go dive my local mudhole down to 80'.
 
I agree with all these points, but feel any deviation from DIR is a compromise in safety to one degree or another. There are those who would argue solo, deep air or END>100' are no more risk than DIR protocols. They are in denial.

If you are pushing NDLs on EANx, what's the difference in diving air? Of course, deco is an entirely different issue and air is a piss poor gas choice for deco.

I know this will probably be ignored in the wake of name calling that is sure to continue, but I'll post it anyway.

My only issues so far with the DIR approach are:

1. Not using air as an "acceptable" gas. I'm not very concerned about this one since I don't think anyone really takes this tenet very seriously, and I've even had a GUE instructor give me an air fill and tell us "for the dives we're doing it doesn't make any difference"

2. Max END 100'. I like the idea of using helium to clear your head, but I won't give up diving on some of the local wrecks. Until I take Tech 1 at least, I'll still be using my "Chicago Mix" to dive the Milwaukee and Wisconsin.

3. Solo Diving is just relaxing. There's just nothing like a nice leisurely dive by yourself. Kind of like a long walk in the woods just to see what you see. I think you can buy into the team approach, and still like to do a relaxing solo dive when you want to.
 
I agree that there is increased risk associated with certain choices made during diving. For that matter, there is an increased risk between doing a fully "DIR" dive to 35' in a shallow quarry and doing another fully "DIR" dive to 95' in the open ocean. I guess I just consider the difference between a 110' dive and a 100' dive similar to the difference between a 90' dive and a 100' dive. And I also admit that I being partially hard-headed because I don't want to stop doing the 100-120' dives I've been doing.

Any deviation from DIR is a compromise in safety to one degree or another.

As far as the standardization goes, I can see your point. I think the EANx32 recommendation works if you have a lot of tanks that you are mixing up, and you don't have to worry about which tank has air for dive 1 and which has the 34.9% for dive 2, etc. But at the same time, air may be a perfectly acceptable choice for a shallow dive, and if a local group adopted all of DUI's principles, but replaced 32% with (and this is a random example) 34% down to 90', recommending 30/30 for anything deeper than 90', I think it would be the same system with a slightly different implementation.

To me, you can ignore all the numbers, and exact details about what GUE actually recommends; what makes DIR effective is the mindset that "we're going to sit down, and figure out the safest way we can to conduct these dives." A lot of good divers have learned to dive deep without education, and without proper equipment. Today, we know a lot more about unsafe PPO2, and we know ways to limit narcosis. A good diver re-thinks the way they dive based on what new information and equipment is available. When it comes down to it, every organization has a set of numbers they push for max PPO2, or max depth on air, etc. I don't care what the exact numbers chosen are, I care about how they chose the numbers. Heck, even guys like Kohler, or Gentile have a max PPO2 they will dive, I'm sure. I just don't want my limits determined by "the way things used to be", or by two guys that managed to avoid potential problems due to a high personal skill level while the problem could have been eliminated in the first place.

You can do some pretty impressive things with modest techniques, and you can make up for a lot with skill level; but once you find a problem with the system, refine the system. Whether you're the guy in Seattle diving air to 240', the guy in Jersey decorated like a Christmas tree, or the couple in Cozumel going down the Throat in AL80s with their air-IIs and dangling consoles.

Tom

PS, its getting late, and I'm really sorry if this turned evangelistic, it really wasn't my intention.
 
Been "slapped" a few times for my occasional solo dives ... no biggie, I still enjoy the peace and solitude from time to time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

BTW, Bob, I know you tell people you aren't a DIR type, but you are probably more DIR than not. Why exactly don't you consider yourself DIR?

TOm
 
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