Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[24940]

At the risk of returning to the issue in the OP, I can see some force in the argument in asking the DM not to wear Tec set-up on training dives. If you are going to demonstrate regulator recovery, it is pretty hard to do that wearing a rebreather (for example).

I can't speak for all agencies, but we don't demo skills during OW in SSI. We observe and evaluate. If I have to show them how, they aren't ready for checkouts.

But on the snorkels thing, I can't remember the last time I saw an instructor wearning a snorkel in this part of the world. But I think if the instructor is teaching the class, it is kind of their call.

I wish it was my call. Standards require me to use a snorkel in OW.

During all scuba training each student is to be
equipped with a complete Total Diving System
consisting of the Snorkeling System, the Exposure
System (where applicable), the Air Delivery System,
the Information System, the Total DiveLog System,
the Buoyancy Control System, and the Specialty
Training and Accessory System. (Mask, Snorkel, Fins,
Buoyancy Compensator with Power Inflator, Weight
System, Cylinder, Regulator with Submersible Pressure
Gauge and Alternate Air Source, Depth Gauge, Timing
Device, SSI DiveLog). During all open water scuba
training, each Instructor is to be equipped with at least:
all student equipment plus an emergency signaling
device, a knife and a compass. Protective suits and
weight systems are recommended for both instructors
and students whenever possible. Students should be
encouraged to purchase and use their own equipment.
This becomes increasingly important during the more
advanced levels of training.

On the topic of confusing gear, if an OW diver can't identify a first stage, primary, secondary, BCD and inflator hose and harness, they shouldn't be diving. A BP/W rig has the same key components as any other BCD.

The only arguments I've heard against this rig strike me as being made in ignorance of the system.

 

[Peter Guy]

Again, for the record, "my" LDS does sell BP/W's -- just not the one I happen to use -- but THAT was not the issue -- never was. It had nothing to do with what the shop was selling (and will that ever be acknowledged?) -- the "issue" the instructor had related to confusion of the students.

BTW, last night at the pool another instructor came up to me and asked if I would PLEASE come to his class next Monday and bring my BP/W so that his class could see, and work, with different gear? (No, not an OW class, rescue, but I couldn't help but laugh!)

 

[amascuba]

At the risk of returning to the issue in the OP, I can see some force in the argument in asking the DM not to wear Tec set-up on training dives. If you are going to demonstrate regulator recovery, it is pretty hard to do that wearing a rebreather (for example). I don't know about "confusing" them, but it has to presumably help new students if they see experienced divers supervising them using equipment similar to their own in a proper fashion.

But on the snorkels thing, I can't remember the last time I saw an instructor wearning a snorkel in this part of the world. But I think if the instructor is teaching the class, it is kind of their call.

A backplate/wing is not tech equipment. Add a couple quick releases to the shoulder straps and remove the crotch strap on a backplate with a singles wing and it would be like any back inflate bcd on the market.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Again, for the record, "my" LDS does sell BP/W's -- just not the one I happen to use -- but THAT was not the issue -- never was. It had nothing to do with what the shop was selling (and will that ever be acknowledged?) -- the "issue" the instructor had related to confusion of the students.

BTW, last night at the pool another instructor came up to me and asked if I would PLEASE come to his class next Monday and bring my BP/W so that his class could see, and work, with different gear? (No, not an OW class, rescue, but I couldn't help but laugh!)

Don't you think, Peter, that the issue boils down to personalities and strongly-held opinions?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[24940]

Don't you think, Peter, that the issue boils down to personalities and strongly-held opinions?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

aka egos and ignorance

 

[amascuba]

Don't you think, Peter, that the issue boils down to personalities and strongly-held opinions?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

ding, ding, ding

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

aka egos and ignorance

Ego ... definitely ... not that I consider it necessarily a bad thing.

But, I have far too much respect for the instructor involved to call him ignorant ... set in his ways, perhaps ... and his ways are not my ways (nor Peter's, apparently). But as the instructor, he's entitled to them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cacia]

Rigid people are more dangerous than gear variation.

 

[Kingpatzer]

People who do DIR and team diving know the importance of standardization.

If that's a good thing for advanced divers why is it a bad thing for beginning divers?

When I was in kindergarten learning to color in between the lines, my teacher didn't sit down with a set of CarbOthello pastel pencils and a kneaded eraser, instead she sat down with a box of broken Crayola's just like all the kids had.

We could see what she was doing with the same tools we were using, and we could more easily emulate her.

When your teaching skills using tools that may appear substantially different than the student's tools (regardless of if they are actually different) is poor pedagogy.

And just a question for the OP -- why would you WANT to take your good gear into a chlorine pool? Have you seen what chlorine does to gear?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

People who do DIR and team diving know the importance of standardization.

If that's a good thing for advanced divers why is it a bad thing for beginning divers?

When I was in kindergarten learning to color in between the lines, my teacher didn't sit down with a set of CarbOthello pastel pencils and a kneaded eraser, instead she sat down with a box of broken Crayola's just like all the kids had.

We could see what she was doing with the same tools we were using, and we could more easily emulate her.

When your teaching skills using tools that may appear substantially different than the student's tools (regardless of if they are actually different) is poor pedagogy.

And just a question for the OP -- why would you WANT to take your good gear into a chlorine pool? Have you seen what chlorine does to gear?

Hmmmm ... knowing Peter, this thread's probably irritating him more than the incident that initiated it.

Did you read the first post in this thread? To excerpt a couple paragraphs ...

So now I have my DM card and agreed to "help out" with an OW class with my instructor/mentor. I showed up at the pool with the same gear I'd been using in my DM class (SeaQuest Balance, Airsource, snorkel in pocket). At the end of the class it was "suggested" that I put the snorkel on my mask so that the students wouldn't be confused. Hmmmm.

Today I asked him if he minded if I dove "my gear" in OW and told him I wasn't all that comfortable diving the Balance in OW. (I haven't dived it in OW for two years.) He "suggested" that I ditch the "technical gear" and just dive the "regular" gear so as to NOT confuse the students AND so as to defuse potential liability issues/questions (don't ask!). He also told me I shouldn't worry about my trim (etc.) because I'll be so concerned with where students are that my trim won't be of any concern!

He clearly states that he's taking his "traditional" gear in the pool, and that his instructor is telling him to "ditch his technical gear" for the OW certification dives.

Now, unless PADI's changed their rules in the past four years, DM's don't demonstrate skills during certification dives ... the students do. Therefore the notion of "emulation" is rather a moot point. The "potential liability issue" the instructor refers to is a complete red herring ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)