Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[Cacia]

ha ha

even I agree with you Rick.

Look, the LDS doing an OW cert has a far different job that a Fundies Instructor who has a self selected group of highly motivated serious divers.

It is not fair to compare the two, beyond integrity and comittment.

There are many excellent OW Instructors and shops grooming the future Fundies or DIR divers. You should really appreciate that, and stop being condescending (or teach OW classes) Do they do that yet? Because that is pretty tough, and has an entirely different set of responsibilities. (diving families safely on vacation, impressing them with the biggest dangers, dealing with people who maybe are not cut out for diving....etc) Being a generalist, is more difficult than being a specialist, in many ways.

 

[Thalassamania]

Oh yes you are, Thal. And it's the same attitude that GI3 demonstrated that turns people off of DIR.

Methinks you're a bit oversensitive, or my GI3 impression is perhaps bit too good. I am not DIR, I am not Tech, I am not Rec ... I dive what I feel is most appropriate to the task at hand ... and a great deal of the time that's vintage. If I've turned you off to a Fenzy, a Royal Aquamaster, a Swimmaster Wideview, or a skin-two-sides Rubatex suit ... then I'm truly sorry.

So why don't you think a shop owner might agree with you? The instructor may feel the students will be diving rented jacket BC's in the tropics. So the course is taught in Jackets. You know, train how you dive.

Personally I'm in favor of exposing students to as many different types of gear as possible (I even bring in double hose regs for a quick try). I see dive gear as a crutch that lets us get things done, not as an end in itself. That said ... I'm a vintage diver for fun, a Rec diver for most training (with a science community team diving ethos overlying it all) and a Tech/Hog diver when that is called for. I don't see switching gear as any big deal. There are times when standardizing gear helps (e.g., we only repaired a handful of regulators, if wanted yours serviced for free, it had to be one that I liked).

Well, when YOU talk the talk...

Perhaps part of it is when you hear what you want (or expect) to hear.

Exhaustive experience and staggering authority aside, how do you know the student's best interest? How do you know the instructor's motivation? Are you teaching this paticular class?

Please, go back and read the posts again. It's almost a tautology.

Like you said Thal, lots of fools and snake oil saleman out there. Some of them don't even know how much snake oil they're peddling.

Most don't, that's part of the problem ... they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, and they're just repeating what their instructors and CDs told them, etc.

Very few divers have the time or resources to actually go out and work with many different pieces of gear and make truly informed choices. I have been blessed with that capabilty and, by and large, have reached the conclusion that, "it's the diver not the gear." Which is not to say that there is not some serious strokery out there and that there are not a lot of LDSs that are more concerned with selling one brand over another regardless of the actual comparable utility or quality.

 

[b1gcountry]

I haven't read through all the responses, but I am going through the exact same thing here. I've had my instructor tear off my mask when I wasn't wearing a snorkel. He does not let me use a long hose, and does not even like it when I use a 4' hose that isn't wrapped around the neck. He makes constant remarks about how unsafe my BP is because it has a standard weight buckle, it has no ditchable weight, and that's it's inappropriate for open water.

He didn't let me assist with his class last weekend because I showed up in a drysuit with bottom temps in the 40's. The funny part is I would have worn a wetsuit if I'd been asked, but the last I had heard from him, he was planning on diving dry himself.

Tom

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I haven't read through all the responses, but I am going through the exact same thing here. I've had my instructor tear off my mask when I wasn't wearing a snorkel. He does not let me use a long hose, and does not even like it when I use a 4' hose that isn't wrapped around the neck. He makes constant remarks about how unsafe my BP is because it has a standard weight buckle, it has no ditchable weight, and that's it's inappropriate for open water.

He didn't let me assist with his class last weekend because I showed up in a drysuit with bottom temps in the 40's. The funny part is I would have worn a wetsuit if I'd been asked, but the last I had heard from him, he was planning on diving dry himself.

Tom

Perhaps next class you should show up in a dinosaur costume ... :blinking:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[24940]

SSI says you can use a rollup snorkel and clip it off or keep it in a DS pocket and satisfy standards. That won't be enough for some shops, but it is for mine and that makes me a happy guy.

 

[marinediva]

I do not feel it is unreasonable for a school or club to ask Pro staff to wear similar configurations of gear to the students in an Open Water course or below. In fact I would expect it.

Should the students be doing advanced or rescue, then different gear configurations offer new resources for learning. All Padi students must have a snorkel attached to their mask, I am not sure of other agencies.

Myself, I own a teaching BCD and a winged sport BCD. When I don the teaching BCD I feel the difference and my mind is set on teaching and caring for my students, when I am wearing my wings I know this dive is about what I want and just have myself and my buddy to worry about.

No matter where you go, you will always find dive facilities that will make it a condition of employment that you work under their guidelines. WHether it be to teach an OW course in a particular sequence, to include buddy/buddy air exchange in the course, or to wear the same gear configuration their shop, their rules.

 

[caseybird]

Methinks you're a bit oversensitive, or my GI3 impression is perhaps bit too good. I am not DIR, I am not Tech, I am not Rec ... I dive what I feel is most appropriate to the task at hand ... and a great deal of the time that's vintage. If I've turned you off to a Fenzy, a Royal Aquamaster, a Swimmaster Wideview, or a skin-two-sides Rubatex suit ... then I'm truly sorry.

As facinating as this all is, it has nothing to do with the question I posed. Since your reply to me if mostly empty rhetoric wrapped up in injured innocence, I'll ignore the rest of your most admirable prose since it has contributed nothing to the point of my question.
You know, it wasn't long ago when we were talking about getting together to dive. I'm feeling this isn't very likely now. Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to reply to the response I feel is heading my way. Off to Coz for 10 nights, to do some good old drift diving with Blue XT Sea.
My apologies to Peter for the way this has turned out.
I'd love to try a double hose reg.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I do not feel it is unreasonable for a school or club to ask Pro staff to wear similar configurations of gear to the students in an Open Water course or below. In fact I would expect it.

When in Rome...

I'm DIR, tech, cave, all that stuff and have several BP&W setups. But, I also have a standard recreational BC that I use when necessary. I even reconfigured one of my rigs so I can wear a weight belt, which I normally don't wear. It's only 4 lbs, but it meets the requirement of having something to ditch. I've got no issues wearing it and trot it out when necessary. It's by no means unsafe.

I understand why an OW instructor might object. First of all, it could be a distraction. The class isn't there to learn about your gear or the way you dive. They also aren't there to boost your ego because of how cool you and your gear are. They are the instructors or shop owner's customers, not yours. Sorry, but if you have such a problem with wearing standard recreational gear, then you shouldn't be working as a recreational DM.

 

[bfw]

Oh yes you are, Thal. And it's the same attitude that GI3 demonstrated that turns people off of DIR.

Only those who allow ad hominem feelings to overrule rational thought.

Exhaustive experience and staggering authority aside, how do you know the student's best interest?

From rational evaluation. It's also the trivial case to realize that the shop's profit is a poor basis for determining the student's best interest.

 

[Thalassamania]

Come on Casey, you're always welcome. The last thing I wanted to do was to hurt anyone's feelings.