Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[Peter Guy]

Hmmmm ... knowing Peter, this thread's probably irritating him more than the incident that initiated it.

How true!

And yes, as with just about every other "teaching" staff, I have "pool gear" and "OW" gear. The "pool gear" is similar, but not identical, to the rental student gear (back inflate BC instead of jacket, AirSource instead of Octo) and ALL is sold by the LDS.

And no, DM's do NOT demonstrate in OW -- we observe and assist.

 

[caseybird]

I'm not name calling,

Oh yes you are, Thal. And it's the same attitude that GI3 demonstrated that turns people off of DIR.

I use jacket BCs all the time and love them, a jacket BC may sell be the best selection for a given team.

So why don't you think a shop owner might agree with you? The instructor may feel the students will be diving rented jacket BC's in the tropics. So the course is taught in Jackets. You know, train how you dive.

Please don't confuse me with some fool-aid swiller.

Well, when YOU talk the talk...

The issue at hand is the ethical stance of putting the marketing plan ahead of the instructors' best judgment and the students' best interest

Exhaustive experience and staggering authority aside, how do you know the student's best interest? How do you know the instructor's motivation? Are you teaching this paticular class?

That to me is the ultimate strokery. Ever been stroked by a snakeoil salesman? Like how it feels?

Like you said Thal, lots of fools and snake oil saleman out there. Some of them don't even know how much snake oil they're peddling.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Hmmmm ... knowing Peter, this thread's probably irritating him more than the incident that initiated it.

Did you read the first post in this thread? To excerpt a couple paragraphs ...


He clearly states that he's taking his "traditional" gear in the pool, and that his instructor is telling him to "ditch his technical gear" for the OW certification dives.

Now, unless PADI's changed their rules in the past four years, DM's don't demonstrate skills during certification dives ... the students do. Therefore the notion of "emulation" is rather a moot point. The "potential liability issue" the instructor refers to is a complete red herring ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob's right. So far DM's are not allowed to demo skills during dives. Some instructors don't allow DM's to demo them in the pool. I had one that was this way. One not only allowed me to demo but also explain it. Usually DM's only demo skills after the instructor has done so and is perhaps having the DM work on a particular skill with an individual student who may be having difficulties.

YMCA and NAUI instructors I've been around not only allow DM's and AI's to demo skills, once they've been checked out and see that the DM's skills are demo quality, but encourage it. You learn to teach by teaching. PADI DM's have it kinda tough. I did anyway. I was expected to know nearly as much as the instructor but was extremely limited in even passing on this knowledge to students. Classroom presentations were out completely. Pool sessions were bascially babysitting sessions with a few opportunities to work with students one on one. Usually on the snorkeling portions. I was also the assistant for air share and other skills demo's but never allowed to conduct one myself. When I switched it opened a new world of learning to me.

All of a sudden not only was I allowed to teach but also actually plan the lesson, write the lecture, deliver it, and conduct skills in the pool. At first under direct surpervision of course till I got my card as an AI but once that happened I could do all classroom sessions unsupervised. It makes a world of difference to actually teach as opposed to watching someone do it and being told how to do it.

 

[Azza]

Again, for the record, "my" LDS does sell BP/W's -- just not the one I happen to use -- but THAT was not the issue -- never was. It had nothing to do with what the shop was selling (and will that ever be acknowledged?) --

I acknowledge that Peter.

 

[bfw]

the "issue" the instructor had related to confusion of the students.

Maybe he should stop teaching the mentally retarded to dive! Come on, like they'll really be confused. I suppose that those learning to drive will be equally confused by the mixture of sedans, sports cars, SUV's, and minivans on the road. Heck, the sight of a motorcycle or Smart Car might give them a grand mal seizure.

If seeing different types of equipment confuses someone, not only should they not be diving, but they have no business anywhere outside an institution without medical supervision.

 

[bfw]

When I was in kindergarten learning to color in between the lines, my teacher didn't sit down with a set of CarbOthello pastel pencils and a kneaded eraser, instead she sat down with a box of broken Crayola's just like all the kids had.

We don't teach kindergarteners to dive (yet.)

 

[Cacia]

I suppose that those learning to drive will be equally confused by the mixture of sedans, sports cars, SUV's, and minivans on the road.

lol, exactly.

If that's a good thing for advanced divers why is it a bad thing for beginning divers?

because you need a broad, sound foundation before specializing, IMO.

 

[Rick Inman]

As to being confuse by various gear configuratons... My experience with new divers begins mostly the day after they finish class. The students from all the local shops often (at the encouragement of the LDS) begin their OW post-class diving with our dive club. So I see them from the PADI, SSI and NAUI shops, fresh out of class.

Do you think they are NOT going to have to deal with various gear configurations when they dive in the real world?

They get buddied up with someone and have no clue how their buddy's configuration works - because they've never seen an octopus, if they were trained using an AIR2, or never seen an AIR2, if they were trained on an octo. As to a long hose and bunged backup, when you show 'em that 7' of hose, they just stare at you.

Students (IMHO) need to be exposed to a verity of gear configurations to dive safely with other divers post-class. In the real world, the new OW student will usually have to dive with buddies with different gear, and by NOT exposing them to the different configurations in OW class, the instructor is not really training them to dive safely in the real world. I would think different gear configurations on the DMs would be encouraged - that is, if the instructor is motivated by giving good, safe, rounded education, rather than just pushing another student through.

Some instructors need to get out and dive more with us "just divers"- you know, the people who really go diving every week with the students you pump out. But most instructors just give 'em a card, send them on their way, hope they'll buy gear and trips from them, and then go on to the next class. In every weekly dive club we have BP/W's, Air2's, octos, ponies, and all sorts of verity. Students not exposed to diving with gear configurations outside the single one picked by the LDS are not really ready to dive in the real world. How can the instructor feel good about giving someone like this a C card??

I personally wish there was more standardization (I prefer BP/W, unified team, and will not do more than a recreational dive with those outside of that), but it isn't reality.

That's okay. Let the LDS keep giving them C cards, and we divers will continue to fill in as mentors post class (that's how I learned, too). Which includes exposing them to a verity of gear configurations.

 

[ahava]

But most instructors just give 'em a card, send them on their way, hope they'll buy gear and trips from them, and then go on to the next class. .

Thats a pretty degrading statment there.

 

[24940]

Thats a pretty degrading statment there.

I wouldn't call it degrading, just accurate.