Suspended Course Director

[matts1w]

I do understand the internet has a lot of garbage. My point is that PADI is a large, rich company (according to many) and they should have a vested interest in their copyrights. As such, to protect themselves they should have a mechanism in place to deal with these types of problems, at least for sites that are for members that have been suspended or expelled. I would think that they would have lawyers in place that can deal with even unscrupulous hosting companies, who can be sued for hosting a website that is infringing on their copyrights. Do you think an unscrupulous hosting company wants to go to court or just remove the offending site?

Such is the crux of the internet. We could be talking about PAID Americas in the United States, a former PADI CDC in Mexico, and a web site hosted in...say...the Bahamas. How do you enforce that? Should PADI have lawyers ready to go in every nation? Heck, in many countries they cannot even enforce drug laws, so why would they give a rat's a$$ about some company's logo in the US?

 

[Diver Dennis]

Yes, it's true it might be cost prohibitive and take a long time but it can be done and we don't know who is hosting this guy's site. It might be a company that would shut him down. Not all hosting companies are crooks.

Here's another idea, why not take a webshot of the offending site and post it on the PADI website? This would give people who, as you pointed out should be researching anyway, a chance to check and see if a particular operation is sanctioned by PADI? I mean at least the sites that have suspended or expelled members? I'm no genius but it's easy to come up with ways for PADI to warn it's paying members of the fact they might not be getting what they paid for. They do have a listing but I didn't see this guy's name because he is just suspended. I might have missed it.

My main point is that there are ways for PADI to protect it's customers right now if they really cared about customer service. It seems like everyone is talking about PADI as a "put another dollar in" company and if this is true they should be able to afford to be more proactive in their customer service.

 

[NancyLynn]

Actually, taking material protected by copyright down is pretty simple. It normally takes no more than 48 hours - most ISPs don't want to get dinged for contributing to copyright infringement and the law in most countries provides an easy out if the webhost takes the material down once they are notified that a site they are hosting contains someone else's material. If they take it down promptly, they get a get out of jail free card on infringement. Most people whose stuff shows up where it shouldn't assume it's difficult to get it taken down and don't bother.

That said, there's very little on the webpage in question that is copyright protected (generally on the internet that is text and images). There's trademark stuff (the use of the tradmark PADI to identify the certifying agency) which is not subject to the same take-down rules, and probably breach of contract (continuing to assert he can provide PADI certification after his relationship with them had been terminated, etc.). Neither of these are something a webhost is likely to get involved with.

What surprises me is this:

PADI Dive Center and Resort Directory

Search for Cancun, and scroll down about a quarter of the page.

You'd think PADI would at least remove him from their own website! When I was looking for a shop for OW, I used the PADI site to find a shop. Looks as if that was not necessarily a good way to find someone who could actually provide me with PADI certification.

 

[Diver Dennis]

So, maybe my statement about PADI not caring holds true...

Nice catch Nancy.

 

[DandyDon]

An interesting debate, fellows...

How about sending an email to the hosting company, telling them he is misrepresenting himself? Or maybe, the hosting company is getting a cut on the courses now that PADI is no longer getting theirs?

Maybe they have, who knows. It's been experience that Padi lacks the huevos to do anything openly and publicly, certainly not post here. But I imagine y'all have seen me posting about my Pet Padi Peeve and their air quality testing requirements.*

This discussion has turned ridiculous. Of course PADI could shut this guy down if they wanted. Contrary to what some apparently believe, Mexico is not a lawless nation. Mexico is a signatory member of many international treaties covering intellectual property rights such as trademarks. All it would take is a call or letter to the right people and Mexican authorities would take the guy down, unless the CD has friends in high places. These aren't the local cops who can be bribed, either.

As for the hosting company, most are quick to respond to intellectual property violations because they can inherit the liability of their customers otherwise. If in a nation that is a party to mentioned treaties they can incur huge expenses. There is a reason you won't see many porn, bootleg softwarez, and other illicit sites ending in a .mx domain. Most of them are located in countries not a party to the treaties or that turn a blind eye, like those in Eastern Europe or Asia.

Wonder why nothing has been done yet?

Yes, it's true it might be cost prohibitive and take a long time but it can be done and we don't know who is hosting this guy's site. It might be a company that would shut him down. Not all hosting companies are crooks.

Here's another idea, why not take a webshot of the offending site and post it on the PADI website? This would give people who, as you pointed out should be researching anyway, a chance to check and see if a particular operation is sanctioned by PADI? I mean at least the sites that have suspended or expelled members? I'm no genius but it's easy to come up with ways for PADI to warn it's paying members of the fact they might not be getting what they paid for. They do have a listing but I didn't see this guy's name because he is just suspended. I might have missed it.

My main point is that there are ways for PADI to protect it's customers right now if they really cared about customer service. It seems like everyone is talking about PADI as a "put another dollar in" company and if this is true they should be able to afford to be more proactive in their customer service.

Have you tried phoning them? It's a free call in the US; don't know about there? Try it: 800-Pay-Padi. I did several times over the air testing before I finally got an answer.

Actually, taking material protected by copyright down is pretty simple. It normally takes no more than 48 hours - most ISPs don't want to get dinged for contributing to copyright infringement and the law in most countries provides an easy out if the webhost takes the material down once they are notified that a site they are hosting contains someone else's material. If they take it down promptly, they get a get out of jail free card on infringement. Most people whose stuff shows up where it shouldn't assume it's difficult to get it taken down and don't bother.

That said, there's very little on the webpage in question that is copyright protected (generally on the internet that is text and images). There's trademark stuff (the use of the tradmark PADI to identify the certifying agency) which is not subject to the same take-down rules, and probably breach of contract (continuing to assert he can provide PADI certification after his relationship with them had been terminated, etc.). Neither of these are something a webhost is likely to get involved with.

What surprises me is this:

PADI Dive Center and Resort Directory

Search for Cancun, and scroll down about a quarter of the page.

You'd think PADI would at least remove him from their own website! When I was looking for a shop for OW, I used the PADI site to find a shop. Looks as if that was not necessarily a good way to find someone who could actually provide me with PADI certification.

Anyone want to call them Tuesday? It may take 12 calls over the course of days, keep track of names and employee ID# - ask for them.

* Want me to go over my Padi air test requirements again? Basically, they require them quarterly for anyone using their name but don't enforce it unless there is a complaint. Most I've asked outside of US never bother.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Based on the fact that Nancy found out they have not even removed him from their own website I would think it's pretty safe to assume they have done nothing in regards to having his site shut down.

No free call from here I don't think Don.

 

[DandyDon]

Based on the fact that Nancy found out they have not even removed him from their own website I would think it's pretty safe to assume they have done nothing in regards to having his site shut down.

No free call from here I don't think Don.

Does it cost to try dialing it now to see if you get thru?

 

[Diver Dennis]

I'll send them an email just to see what they say for curiosity sake.

EDIT: Sent

 

[John_B]

Contrary to what some apparently believe, Mexico is not a lawless nation.

 

[leapfrog]

Thats all good but I would just strip off my dry suit and go for the martini in an Armani tuxedo.

Thanks. I'm putting that in to my progrm to send off to PADI. Hope you don't mind me stealing your intellectual property....