Are SCR's the RHSC of the Rebreather World?

[grazie42]

What about taking an eCCR and lowering the set point and managing it as a mCCR, I know you have the solenoid as a single point of failure, Are there eCCR's with Selenoid bypasses for underwater mCCR usage?

My view (and I admit it´s fairly uninformed) is that mCCRs are better mCCRs than eCCRs...Why would you pay for all that "stuff" only to essentially "turn it off"?

The mCCRs do what you want to do with constant-massflow but without using a bunch of expensive electronics...I´m not anti eCCRs (though my personal preference is for something different) but it seems to me, that if you´re going to get one, you should run it as an eCCR...otherwise, whats the point?

 

[Mr.X]

What about taking an eCCR and lowering the set point and managing it as a mCCR, I know you have the solenoid as a single point of failure, Are there eCCR's with Selenoid bypasses for underwater mCCR usage?

Muy excellente! You have been doing your homework! What that will do is essentially save you battery and solenoid use. Plus, get you really good at maintaining manual setpoint. Very important skill. I ran a lot of units manually just to be facile with maintaining a manual set point, but let it run electronically when it got busy. In bad straits, an ECCR backup is a nice thing to have. Really. So, as mentioned in the thread above, why not let the leccies help you every so often? I run the electronics usually during penetration and when I'm doing video work...with a buddy watching me. BTW - I don't ever trust these things.

To bypass solenoid inject O2 into the loop etc... Maintaining an ideal setpoint will bypass the need for the ECCR controller to inject oxygen. As I say this, your CCR instructor will show you how to run your unit manually. There are some other procedures involved.

The real devil is finding a unit with ultra-reliable electronics. All of these ECCR's will bugger out at one time or another. It'll cost yah $$$. Honestly, the CIS, Insp., Hammerhead, Meg have all gone funny. The MCCR's may have bad wiring every so often to PO2 devices, but they tend to work unless you clog up something bigtime. My favorite unit right now is the LAR V. It's got nuthin'. BTW - My next big expedition will be on OC. I use the breather exclusively for deep stuff now, or where I need to be submerged for a while. Other than that, they are nice shiny devices that used to be focus of jealousy - a decade ago. Showing up on the Seeker years ago with Yellow boxes was fun! The girls never dug em, but the guys did. In reality, girls really do not dig breathers, nor were there a bevy of women around the Seeker who admired boxes. In fact, the girls on the Seeker started showing up with boxes after a few years...I digress.

BTW- smart move to ask questions here. It's a kinder, gentler place to ask.

X

 

[Windwalker]

Muy excellente! You have been doing your homework! What that will do is essentially save you battery and solenoid use. Plus, get you really good at maintaining manual setpoint. Very important skill. I ran a lot of units manually just to be facile with maintaining a manual set point, but let it run electronically when it got busy. In bad straits, an ECCR backup is a nice thing to have.

Thanks, I figure if I am going to fork out $15,000 on gear and training, it would be best to ask around and do lots of research.

I think that would be the #1 reason to pay the extra bucks for the eCCR. However, you make a point (and it has been pointed out elsewhere on this board) that if the electronics bite it, your done diving.

My favorite unit right now is the LAR V. It's got nuthin'.

Wait.. Isn't the LAR V a Shallow water O2 only Drager rebreather for Military use only?
Did these things start becoming available to the general public?

My view (and I admit it´s fairly uninformed) is that mCCRs are better mCCRs than eCCRs...Why would you pay for all that "stuff" only to essentially "turn it off"?

I hear you, I am someone who thinks that Simpler is better, but I have noticed that most the 'nicer' CCR's are eCCR's. I dive a lot of cold water. I need the larger scrubber capacity to handle my increased metabolism, so I am not really into any of the sport models. Currently I am looking at The KISS, The Inspiration, the O2ptima, and the Hammerhead. I like the size and pack-ability of the O2ptima. But I like the simpleness of the KISS. However, I understand that some of the units can be converted easily from eCCR to mCCR in the field.

 

[wedivebc]

What about taking an eCCR and lowering the set point and managing it as a mCCR, I know you have the solenoid as a single point of failure, Are there eCCR's with Selenoid bypasses for underwater mCCR usage?

That is the method employed by many meg instructors, including myself. Although I prefer to use the solenoid while diving I am very aware of its operation and the sound it makes and if it were to not fire I am sure the sound would be deafening. It is good practice on any eCCR to practice manual operation on a regular basis.

 

[grazie42]

I hear you, I am someone who thinks that Simpler is better, but I have noticed that most the 'nicer' CCR's are eCCR's. I dive a lot of cold water. I need the larger scrubber capacity to handle my increased metabolism, so I am not really into any of the sport models. Currently I am looking at The KISS, The Inspiration, the O2ptima, and the Hammerhead. I like the size and pack-ability of the O2ptima. But I like the simpleness of the KISS. However, I understand that some of the units can be converted easily from eCCR to mCCR in the field.

You might want to look into the rEvo...I started out thinking I was going to get a KISS but after looking around and tips from some nice people on this board (thanx mrX!) and others, I finally decided to go for a rEvo...I think it´s a better design (way less o-rings!), there seem to be quite a few people in the US that are getting them as well so you should be able to try one out if you´re willing to do a bit of travelling...

What might make it more appealing to you than a KISS is that you have the ability to upgrade it into an eCCR later if you choose to(though I don´t really know if it´s any good as one)...

ymmv

 

[Mr.X]

Thanks, I figure if I am going to fork out $15,000 on gear and training, it would be best to ask around and do lots of research.

I think that would be the #1 reason to pay the extra bucks for the eCCR. However, you make a point (and it has been pointed out elsewhere on this board) that if the electronics bite it, your done diving.

Wait.. Isn't the LAR V a Shallow water O2 only Drager rebreather for Military use only?
Did these things start becoming available to the general public?

I hear you, I am someone who thinks that Simpler is better, but I have noticed that most the 'nicer' CCR's are eCCR's. I dive a lot of cold water. I need the larger scrubber capacity to handle my increased metabolism, so I am not really into any of the sport models. Currently I am looking at The KISS, The Inspiration, the O2ptima, and the Hammerhead. I like the size and pack-ability of the O2ptima. But I like the simpleness of the KISS. However, I understand that some of the units can be converted easily from eCCR to mCCR in the field.

Yes. The LAR is a shallow-water rebreather for military. There are a few that bounce around in the hands of civilians.

The wide range of rebreathers is great for the consumer. It's a blessing. Years ago it was only a choice between old MK's, Cis Lunar, Inspiration some very dodgy Biomarine Models.

Personally, the KISS classic is not a bad MCCR unit. Not great either IMO. I don't really dig the canister design. There are other choices as Grazie mentioned. The REVO is pretty darn slick, streamlined and modular. The Meg has that ability with the COPIS head, plus a counterlung which can shed water easily. Forget about dumping water from a KISS. It stays in the canister.

Cheers,

X

p.s. I have personally de-evolved towards a simpler method of diving. Breathers are exceptionally cool and efficient in the right circumstances. Currently, my favorite setup is OC, with a large bailout bottle for dives under 100'. No damn sensors to worry about, packing scrubbers, looking after O rings, pre-dive checks and electronics going goofy. This OC setup gives me all the time I need. The CCR / MCCR is used when I have a ceiling (physiological, or physical), for video, or for those really deep dives where helium needs to be used. These are circumstances where these things shine.

 

[SFLDiver3445]

Thanks, I figure if I am going to fork out $15,000 on gear and training, it would be best to ask around and do lots of research.

I think that would be the #1 reason to pay the extra bucks for the eCCR. However, you make a point (and it has been pointed out elsewhere on this board) that if the electronics bite it, your done diving.

Windwalker, I have been diving the Optima since the middle of last year and have enjoyed it tremendously. At first, I planned on diving primarily with the setpoint set lower and manually adding O2, but I found myself ultimately diving it exclusively electronically and letting the rebreather do the work for me; however, that doesn't mean I do not check the PO2 readouts on both my primary handset and on my VR3 (4th cell) very often. Furthermore, the backup features (HUD PO2 Display, Vibrating Warning HUD and Illuminating Handsets) the Hammerhead electronics offer me further add another layer of protection and go a long way towards allowing me to sleep very well at night with the choices I have made.

One other note, the EAC (Scrubber Cartridge), which is standard on the Optima and which has traditionally been a big source of debate online, is an area worth doing your homework about. Personally, the convenience it adds me is priceless. When I'm going diving, I just drop in a new cartridge, and off I go. However, others have made some good points within forums about the possible lack availability and cost, but I think the convenience and consistency in actual scrubbing performance far outway the minor inconvenieces that some feel they may have in acquiring them, but that's just my humble opinion.

I think you are approaching the whole rebreather transition thing from the appropriate angle by doing your homework. Also, don't underestimate the base of knowledge and friendliness found on the RebreatherWorld site (Rebreather World - Rebreathers for Scuba Diving - the next step). I have become a very active member and learn a tremendous amount everytime I'm on the site.

One footnote, for me, the biggest selling point was the geographic distance and availability of a dive shop with a good instructor and good onging support of parts and service for your rebreather. I fortunately have an enormous and knowledgable Dive Rite Dealer (Dive Rite Express) a few miles from my house, so I lucked out. Many people travel far distances to get trained there, but I have them at my doorsteps, and I do not think I would have enjoyed my unit as much, had that not been the case.

Best of luck with your decision, whichever one you make!

 

[Windwalker]

The REVO is pretty darn slick, streamlined and modular. The Meg has that ability with the COPIS head, plus a counterlung which can shed water easily. Forget about dumping water from a KISS. It stays in the canister.

When researching I looked briefly at the rEvo but begin thinking that the dual canister with the central locking mechanism would be bad point of failure. However, further reading has revealed that you can get a titanium case for it, and they are coming out with a hybrid.. sort of a mCCR with a backup solenoid that pops when the O2 level drops too low. I really like that idea. I guess I have to add the rEvo to my list.

One other note, the EAC (Scrubber Cartridge), which is standard on the Optima and which has traditionally been a big source of debate online, is an area worth doing your homework about. Personally, the convenience it adds me is priceless. When I'm going diving, I just drop in a new cartridge, and off I go. However, others have made some good points within forums about the possible lack availability and cost, but I think the convenience and consistency in actual scrubbing performance far outway the minor inconvenieces that some feel they may have in acquiring them, but that's just my humble opinion.

At first I didn't like the idea of a cartridge only design, but I can defiantly see the benefits to the O2ptima. It also seems to have lots of international support. Now I need to do more research, and find out where the schools are and how many clams I need to set aside.

Decisions decisions. I am currently lurking over on the rebreather forums reading the goods and bads on everything that catches my interest.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

For more information on how to research and determine which rebreather might be best for you, and to find out what it is like to move into rebreather diving, check out my article, "Transition to Rebreather Diving," in Issue 25 of Advanced Diver Magazine.

 

[Windwalker]

For more information on how to research and determine which rebreather might be best for you, and to find out what it is like to move into rebreather diving, check out my article, "Transition to Rebreather Diving," in Issue 25 of Advanced Diver Magazine.

Haha.. Shameless Plug!! Thanks, Didn't know that mag existed. Will look it up.
Thank you.