BC manufacturers must be Raking it in...

[cool_hardware52]

Hey Tobin...

don't forget to send your Lear Jet over to pick me up today!

Sorry about the 40, the G550 is already spoken for today...

Tobin

 

[redacted]

What is satisfaction? Are there lots of divers that are dissatisfied or have unmet wants and needs? BUYERS want the BEST VALUE (their needs/wants met at the lowest possible price. SELLERS want to MAXIMIZE the value of their business (typically though maximizing profits). These are all relative and therefore satisfaction exists somewhere in that continuum.

What is fooling them?

I agree. Cost and margin are not the direct issue. I was not dissatisfied with many LDSs until I discovered Leisurepro and realized how much I let myself be decieved. I believe there are quite a number of divers who become dissatisfied when they realize the difference between the prices they payed and the prices they could have payed.

I did find 20 pesos that I would consider letting you have for $10. No -- because you have been so helpful and I'm sure we can do more friendly business in the future, I'll let youi have it for only $5.

 

[Thalassamania]

Keystone is what most brick and mortar retail (diving and otherwise) requires to survive. If that creates "highway robbery" then that's an industry in big trouble.

 

[Coalcracker]

Keystone is what most brick and mortar retail (diving and otherwise) requires to survive. If that creates "highway robbery" then that's an industry in big trouble.

The dive industry is in big trouble. There are fewer entry level divers today than 10 years ago. The 50-65% gross margins @ retail have been seriously eroded as direct sales from Tobin, and others, have undercut the local stores. The diver feels like they are getting a bargain, the direct seller is making a 50-70% margin, playing the "good guy".

The offshore folks, in Tawain, China, and Indonesia, are lowering their minimum orders. The $75.00 mask that actually costs $12.00 will be sold before too long @ $25.00 retail

The local store, traditionally, worked on a 100% markup, a 50% GM. The aggressive retailers are now working on 30-42% margins, plus, of course, they get the inside deal that the LDS never will see. This trend will continue.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The dive industry is in big trouble. There are fewer entry level divers today than 10 years ago. The 50-65% gross margins @ retail have been seriously eroded as direct sales from Tobin, and others, have undercut the local stores.

Do you have ANY evidence that I'm "undercutting" anybody? We sell through retailers, and direct. How would I have any dealers AT ALL if I was undercutting them?

I expect that there will be fewer, not more LDS's in the next few years, but not because of anything I'm doing. DSS is dealer friendly, no minimum orders etc. We do not permit our goods to be sold by online discounters.

Some are simply doomed, I'm sorry to say. The Professional Dive Centers that survive and thrive will be those that differentiate themselves (good instruction, good service, upgraded fill stations etc.)

Those that persist in giving away below cost the two things that cannot be purchased at LP, training and fills, will face the music.

Tobin

 

[Thalassamania]

Sounds to mike like an opportunity for someone to develop a new paradigm. I've often wondered if there was a place for a "for profit" dive club that provided air fills, training, pool, practice opportunities, programmatic mentoring (as opposed to CE), pooled major capital items (scooters, can lights, rebreathers, etc.) and perhaps even a live aboard or oceanside condos.

Equipment sales would not be the focus, thought they could go on, most folks would shop on the net.

 

[fireflock]

I've often wondered why a scuba gear co-op does not exist. I'm thinking about something like REI was back in the day (REI is still a co-op, but very mature and not a place to start out).

Rich

 

[Thalassamania]

I've often wondered why a scuba gear co-op does not exist. I'm thinking about something like REI was back in the day (REI is still a co-op, but very mature and not a place to start out).

Rich

It was (is?) a very common BSAC model to have pooled equipment that could be checked out from the club.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Sounds to mike like an opportunity for someone to develop a new paradigm. I've often wondered if there was a place for a "for profit" dive club that provided air fills, training, pool, practice opportunities, programmatic mentoring (as opposed to CE), pooled major capital items (scooters, can lights, rebreathers, etc.) and perhaps even a live aboard or oceanside condos.

Equipment sales would not be the focus, thought they could go on, most folks would shop on the net.

That's not too different from what's occurred in the UK and Europe, club supported compressors are the norm as is online gear sales.

The impediment here in the litigious US is the liability associated with compressors. If you aren't selling fills (quite a few fills BTW) you cannot afford the insurance.

I see home compressors, and in larger population centers, large fill only commercial operations.

Fill stations at or near dive sites will remain, for example Casino Point.

Tobin

 

[Nemrod]

The OP's observation was that BC's manufacturers were making large profits, i.e. that their costs were low compared to the prices charged.

You contend that BC's high priced because they include features that are unnecessary.

I have never defended "fluffy" bc's, the goods I design are as simple as possible.

While I agree, and have stated so in this thread, that many BC's are far more "feature rich" than required, there is a difference in the OP's observation, and yours.

As a commercial manufacturer of BP&W's I am pretty well informed about the actual costs of manufacturing, marketing and distributing such goods. I'll venture my information is better than yours.

The fact remains that scuba is a competitive arena with many suppliers of all goods including inflatables, yet the retail prices paid are in a reasonably narrow range.

"Obscene" profits are the product of limited competition, or cartels.

Much like nature hates a vacuum, business treats high margins the same way, and will rush to fill them.

Tobin

It sounds like you agree with me but don't want to admit it. BUT, the scuba industry is not all that competitve and is actually quite closed and as close mined as this thread has become. There are rarely head to head unbiased testing by an uninterested party for scuba gear as there are for many other consumer products. So my question is where is your evidence the industry is compettive? I don't see you providing any of the evidence that you DEMAND of others? You stepped up as an example--where is your evidence? If the industry is so competitive and creative why do all of the BCs look so much alike, cost so close to the same price with virtually the same fluffy features and even the same color--black.

Don't write any PMs to me insulting me again either as in the past. You always have to have the last word--it is yours.

N