Cookies or arrows?

Cookies or arrows? And where were you trained?

  • Mexico -- cookies

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • Mexico -- arrows

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Florida -- cookies

    Votes: 14 35.0%
  • Florida -- arrows

    Votes: 19 47.5%

  • Total voters
    40

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TSandM

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As a brand new cave diver, I've been talking to a number of people about the different strategies they use for indicating navigational information, whether that's on the main line or involving T's or jumps. One person suggested that there may actually be regional differences, perhaps related to the relative complexity and large number of entrances possible in the caves in Mexico. We thought it might be interesting to run a poll, to see if there appeared to be any consistency about how people do things, depending on where they were trained.
 
You forgot clothes pins for those who are pre-cookie days.

You may find it worthwhile now that you have a vested interest, to see some previous threads in cave forums about use of navigational markers. Standardization doesn't exist,and it is good to be aware of the different idealologies.
 
As a brand new cave diver, I've been talking to a number of people about the different strategies they use for indicating navigational information, whether that's on the main line or involving T's or jumps. One person suggested that there may actually be regional differences, perhaps related to the relative complexity and large number of entrances possible in the caves in Mexico. We thought it might be interesting to run a poll, to see if there appeared to be any consistency about how people do things, depending on where they were trained.

I think you need to specify under what conditions people use either kind of marker.
It's not sufficient to simply say one or the other.

GUE has the guiding principle when dropping a marker of any kind of "not changing the general navigation of the cave"

That generally means if the last arrow you saw was pointing into the cave, don't lay an arrow that is now pointing out of the cave (use a cookie instead, possibly with an arrow pointing into the cave)

If the arrows are now pointing "into" the cave (from your perspective), dont lay an arrow pointing out of the cave

mark T's or arrows pointing opposite your direction of exit with a cookie on the exit side of the line.

I dont know the GUE jump marking procedure.

Many people state to "never use a marker you did not lay" as a reference, which is a great rule, but under stress and limited vis/time pressures, it's very easy to get confused/make a mistake, and if 1/2 the world has just been laying arrows that were convenient to them (at the time), then it would seem that there is far more chance for accidents to happen.

All the caves I dove in mexico seemed to be marked pretty consistently (although there are some issues with certain divers thinking they can just move the mainline and/or markers around to suit themselves)
 
You forgot clothes pins for those who are pre-cookie days.

You may find it worthwhile now that you have a vested interest, to see some previous threads in cave forums about use of navigational markers. Standardization doesn't exist,and it is good to be aware of the different idealologies.

Probably sufficient to say "Directional" or "non-directional" where non-directional would include cookies and clothes pins etc.
 
Yes, my bad -- Should simply have said directional and non-directional.
 
I use all 3 (clothes pins included) depending on the circumstance. I have yet to use an arrow. Those are reserved for silted out lost line situations. If that situation ever happens, the arrow will be used to indicate which direction I head (and think is out). My cookies are directional...to me. I've drilled a hole in my markers so that I can tell they're mine in no vis situations. I also use that hole to indicate the way I came. When I set the cookie, I set it so the hole is on my exit side. I know what it means, but it doesn't confuse anyone else. I use clothes pins to mark penetrations for circuits or traverses. They're a lot cheaper to replace if I don't get back for a while.
 
the different strategies they use for indicating navigational information, whether that's on the main line or involving T's or jumps.

Ummm, I'm not sure how to answer cause there seem to be several possible situations. What is needing the marker?

The mainline
A jump that's incomplete
A jump you're gonna make
A T
A T you're using
Point where you re-entered the cave looking for a lost diver
The direction you've chosen to attempt to exit after re-finding the line
A noteworthy feature you want to explore in the future
or something completely different...

Some of these are "permanent" markers some just for you.

Are you in an area where an arrow you place would be consistent with the general navigation of the cave or not?

Limeyx summarized the gisp of the jump/T protocol in MX. However there are loads of other reasons for needing directional information.

Can you refine the question?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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