Why NOT DIR?

[Nemrod]

I am sorry, that I don't agree with you on the safety thing. I don't agree that safety is number one, LIVING Life is number ONE, sometimes it is messy, sometimes wonderful but safe?--nah--who ever told you that was mistaken. To the extent safety does not get in my way, good, safe it is, otherwise--hand me the Aqua Lung, I am going down.

N

 

[Cave Diver]

Just because something isn't safe doesn't mean you can't manage the risks associated with it. That is the way that I choose to dive.

If you're not concerned with your safety, no reason why I should be either. To each their own.

 

[Sloth]

Or you could just go solo diving without all the fuss of doubles and seven foot hoses that would do you no good. You would not need a stage either and you do realize that people have been diving for decades and with darn few fatalities. Scuba is not a dangerous sport, cave diving is but open water scuba is not including solo diving in open water. The more junk you carry the greater the danger of malfunction. If you don't need it then don't bring it. The surface is your redundancy to about twice your free diving depth capacity. For me that is about 80 feet at my delapidated condition. Below that a single with a pony is more than adequate for the solo diver. Why is it a must to dive as safely as possible. The safest thing to do if safety is almighty first is not to dive at all-ever.

N
Hand me the Aqua Lung, I am going down.

[This is how to start a good flame war]

Open water solo diving is safe?
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/DiverMole/DMDanger.htm#Mick

This probably goes against your idea of keeping dive gear as simple as possible so I imagine thats would be your interruption of this. Also, for the hell of it I went back and checked the break down of fatalities in the 2006 DAN report and surprisingly only 10 percent of fatalities were by divers starting their dive solo. Thought they do state that a large percent of deaths in a buddy team happens after they are separated.

Really though it is a bit naive to say diving is safe. Any activity were your life depends on equipment cant be considered inherently safe. Of course diving can be made safer.

On a side note I saw a couple of vintage divers today. The gear is pretty cool, nice and streamed lined. I question their choice to dive on a wreck to 120' but thats their call to make.

 

[BarryNL]

My favorite "test" for the "fanatics" remains this: Ask them to explain the "why's." It's been my experience that the ones that rant on, can never justify the reasoning, its always "thats just the way it is." Those are the ones that you should go to great lengths to avoid.

That sums it up perfectly.

It's probably a shame it got the name "Doing It Right" - it's kind of prejudicial and does imply that DIR is simply "right" rather than being a particular approach to diving with cons as well as pros.

Some people seem to use the name "Doing It Simple" instead; a far better name in my opinion.

 

[Rockhound76]

This thread has been pretty darn informative (and less flame intensive than the usual DIR comparison).

I don't dive DIR because I:

1) Dive solo because a bad (insta-buddy) is worse than no buddy at all.
2) Like my atomic splits for most dives (own a pair of jets and a pair of reeflex blades). Frog kicks don't work too well, but I have found several other kicks that work pretty good.
3) Like my Ranger BC (but own an old AT-Pac that is still in great shape and suitable for certain dives)
4) Spearfish
5) Don't like the long hose setup (once messed with my brother-a DIR diver-by showing up for dive with 20' of compressor hose wrapped around my neck "so we could be DIR buddies". He didn't laugh.)
6)Don't like the hogarthian "share your primary, switch to the pony" setup, with or without the long hose. The only two times I've had to share air, I was chasing a panicked diver on his way up. It was/is safer and quicker to hand him my octo (I wear it left shoulder, with a "longish" hose and hand it over purged. I forced it into the last guy's mouth and I know it saved him from a serous injury. Handing him my primary, with or w/o long hose, would have been difficult if not outright dangerous. It was all I could do to grab the guy and slow him down).
4) Don't think you need multiple redundant gear for warm water diving.
5) I think that alterations in gear setup/inventory for specific types of dives is fine.

What DO I like...from my post you may see that I don't know that much about it, but I do have perceptions based on my observations of DIR teams. I DO like the focus on bouyancy control, the focus planning dives and the focus on safety. I like the fact that DIR takes diving seriously. I like my brothers basic DIR setup, outside of the hangman's nose hose.

 

[Hank49]

hypothetically, i wouldn't live there. seattle is too small of a town for me, my next stop will probably be nyc...

Which may explain your choice to team dive?

 

[John_B]

Some people seem to use the name "Doing It Simple" instead; a far better name in my opinion.

The name that's being used is UTD (Unified Team Diver).

6)Don't like the hogarthian "share your primary, switch to the pony" setup, with or without the long hose.
...I like my brothers basic DIR setup, outside of the hangman's nose hose.

You don't actually switch to a pony, you switch to the backup second stage which is on the same reg/tank in a single tank rig and on the other post on a doubles rig.

Also, I don't think you understand the hose routing for the long hose. I don't know if you are a parent or have younger siblings, but if you've ever picked up a small child and had them hold onto you with their arms around the back of your neck, thats the same place the long hose routes as it comes across your left shoulder, behind your neck, and around from the right. No hangman's noose (or nose for that matter).

John

 

[SparticleBrane]

I have found that most people who don't like DIR, don't know jack squat about it (or what they "know" about DIR is totally false).

 

[Rockhound76]

John,

The 20' hose was just to irritate my brother. Btw, I tried a rig with the 7' long hose routing and found it comfortable. I screwed up on the "pony bit" as I recall the bungeed safe second.

I still prefer to hand off a (clear reg) rather than donate my primary, but that's because I'm old and trained that way. When I handed my octo to a rapidly ascending diver a few weeks ago, I felt it was the quickest/safest thing to do. It required nothing more than a quick grab of the octo, a quick purge with the mouthpiece held down while pushing it directly into his face (he'd spit out his reg on the bottom). I can only imagine the difficulty of doing that with my primary, especially one that was routed around my neck. With my left side routing, I was able to hand off to him in a "facing position" which I think (hope) he found reassuring.

Then again, I'm sure DIR (or Gooey or whatever) has a method of handling this rapid hand-off duriing ascent issue. I would certainly be willing to study the matter...I DO NOT like the fact that my gear is setup differently than most folks, although I like the logic of it. I agree that standardized gear does provide an added measure of safety, in certain situations.

That said, my brother is a great diver and most of the DIR divers I've met have been very skilled,albeit not very, er, 'friendly' or forgiving of my "less-than-right" ways. (I REALLY caught grief from a group of them once, after returning from a solo dive. What a group of jerks they were that day.).

I agree that the overall ratio of Jerks-to-Nicefolks is ought to be no higher than in sport diving in general, but my few encounters have run counter to this logic. They have been good divers, tho'.

 

[Guba]

So, to extend the logic...

Poster A asks "Why NOT DIR"? Poster B (not being DIR) gives reason why he/she doesn't subscribe to it. Poster C states, "people who are not DIR don't really know what it's all about and shouldn't render judgement in such a way until they know what it IS about." Poster D implies that only those who are DIR truly know "what it's all about". ERGO Only DIR divers can adequately answer the first question posted by A, yet they have no reason to since they ARE DIR.
Sounds like this thread was doomed from the start.
__________________

The above is from post 111...
I think we're starting the loop all over again.

However, I've enjoyed hearing more about DIR and GUE. While it's still not a viable option for me and my situation, it's good to hear discussion about it in order to understand varied positions. Thanks for the info, ya'll!