Why NOT DIR?

[Cave Diver]

If you use the terminology of "doing it right," then yes, you do go around telling people they are doing it wrong. Words actually mean things. It takes a rather high level of arrogance to presume that one has all the "right" answers, and it actually demonstrates precisely the opposite of professionalism.

No. I dont. I didnt make the name. Don't hold a term that someone else came up with against me, just because I see value and merit in the system.

Likewise with "fundaholic acolytes." Judge me one myactions and attitudes, not some wide sweeping generalization.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Then there is the other side of the coin that takes a term such as Doing it Right as a personal attack on their diving abilites and thus ignore all the positives.

See, that's just it. It isn't about my abilities. I could care less if you think I'm a great diver or a ****ty diver.

I had a DIR moron tell my 14 year old son he was going to die if he kept diving with me because I don't use the right length hose and at the time was renting a jacket style bcd.

Scaring children isn't my idea of a great way to spend a day diving. Now, maybe that's 'cause I'm not doing it right, but frankly, I find the whole exercise to be ludicrous.

It feeds a need, though. People want to feel that they're elite, and they're willing to pay someone to tell them that they are. The problem I have is the attitude that fosters.

It's not just the utter stupidity of the marketing hype. It is the real, genuine stupidity of the arrogant people who latch on to this thing in the mistaken belief that it somehow makes them elite and better than everyone else. And the damage those people then do to the diving community as a whole.

For fear of offending people like you I avoid the term DIR when talking to people and just say GUE tech diving when talking about DIR in general or diving fundamentals class when talking about the DIR-f class.

I'm not offended by the term. I'm offended by the attitude.

It's amazing how many people just turn off due to three little letters. It's a shame that DIR is so ingrained because I don't think there would be so much controversy without it.

Believe it or not, I agree. But not because of the term -- rather because the term stems from an underlying attitude that is all to pervasive in the organization.

Is it everyone who goes to a DIR class? no. But it's a big enough part of the population that you can't seem to get a sample of DIR folks without getting at least one person who fits the shoe . . .

 

[underwasser bolt]

No. I dont. I didnt make the name. Don't hold a term that someone else came up with against me, just because I see value and merit in the system.

Likewise with "fundaholic acolytes." Judge me one myactions and attitudes, not some wide sweeping generalization.

Cave Diver, I agree, everyone should stand as an individual; I too see value and merit in DIR, but on average the vocal people are horrible. DIR is viewed by many as a Borg collective.

 

[Rainer]

Actually, my logic is impeccable.

When someone says that "doing it right" is constituted by following a set list of procedural and equipment standards, I presume that they mean exactly what they say in that statement.

My problem with the statement is, as I pointed out earlier, that it leads to a level of arrogance in enough people following said list that it is harmful to the diving community as a whole. My support for this claim is direct observation of self-identified DIR divers both in person and on various boards.

And, by way of example, I did not insult anyone personally. Your response to my statement was to engage in a personal attack. While the irony or your response about my logic being itself a classic logical fallacy certainly brings a smile to my face, it does nothing to make me want to associate with others like you.

Why? Because diving with people who insult me for my choices rather than engaging with me as a person who might have something to contribute does not enhance either of our diving experiences or make either of us better divers.

And the attitude you just expressed is precisely the attitude the DIR crowd around my area projects every time someone is unfortunate enough to encounter them.

My "attitude" has NOTHING to do with diving. Fine if you want to think that, but it's just false. You can't, for whatever reason, seem to pull apart a label ("DIR") and a philosophy (what GUE teaches). That's SAD. When I drink Coke, I don't think, darn, it's a shame I'm not part of the new generation. Are you really a slave to marketing? You've let the advertizing keep you from seeing the product. Try to rise above your blinders. This has nothing to do with diving, and everything to do with being a grown up.

In my GUE courses, the term DIR was NEVER used once. Never once did a GUE instructor suggest the way we dive is "right", just different (and what they personally consider better, but again, not "right", as in "only").

 

[RoyN]

 

[Kingpatzer]

No. I dont. I didnt make the name. Don't hold a term that someone else came up with against me, just because I see value and merit in the system.

You choose to use the terminology. You are free to not use those words. But if you choose to use them, then you are saying that those who aren't following your method are not doing it right.

I see value and merit in much of what they say as well. But I don't think other people are wrong for not following the DIR way, and I don't go around telling them they're going to die for not doing it my way either.

And, I'm not saying you do those things. I am saying a substantial sub-population of the DIR folks do do those things. If you aren't one of those people why do you choose to associate yourself with them?

Likewise with "fundaholic acolytes." Judge me one myactions and attitudes, not some wide sweeping generalization.

That was, again, in reference to those in the organization who latch onto the DIR way with religious zealotry.

 

[underwasser bolt]

My "attitude" has NOTHING to do with diving. Fine if you want to think that, but it's just false. You can't, for whatever reason, seem to pull apart a label ("DIR") and a philosophy (what GUE teaches). That's SAD. When I drink Coke, I don't think, darn, it's a shame I'm not part of the new generation. Are you really a slave to marketing? You've let the advertizing keep you from seeing the product. Try to rise above your blinders. This has nothing to do with diving, and everything to do with being a grown up.

In my GUE courses, the term DIR was NEVER used once. Never once did a GUE instructor suggest the way we dive is "right", just different (and what they personally consider better, but again, not "right", as in "only").

at least this response is civil; this issue goes far beyond marketing, as does the attitude. There ARE some aspects of DIR that ARE better for certain dive situations. I don't think anyone denies that. but that "better" attitude carries over to the extreme. believe it or not, there are probably plenty of non-DIR divers out there that can out-dive you (or me).

 

[Sloth]

Actually, my logic is impeccable.

When someone says that "doing it right" is constituted by following a set list of procedural and equipment standards, I presume that they mean exactly what they say in that statement.

My problem with the statement is, as I pointed out earlier, that it leads to a level of arrogance in enough people following said list that it is harmful to the diving community as a whole. My support for this claim is direct observation of self-identified DIR divers both in person and on various boards.

And, by way of example, I did not insult anyone personally. Your response to my statement was to engage in a personal attack. While the irony or your response about my logic being itself a classic logical fallacy certainly brings a smile to my face, it does nothing to make me want to associate with others like you.

Why? Because diving with people who insult me for my choices rather than engaging with me as a person who might have something to contribute does not enhance either of our diving experiences or make either of us better divers.

And the attitude you just expressed is precisely the attitude the DIR crowd around my area projects every time someone is unfortunate enough to encounter them.

Hey King,

I just got through reading through some of your older posts just to see where you are coming from and it looks like you are a fairly new diver. I really don't see how you have experienced as many arrogant DIR divers in real life as you make out.

Obviously it's possible that you might live in some DIR epicenter of prick divers but my guess is your opinion is based off of what you have experienced on the internet. Four years ago I was the same way when I got (re)certified. I assumed DIR meant arrogant divers until I actually meet some. I would strongly encourage to take a fundies class or maybe sit in on a Fundies opening sessions - some instructors will let you. This will give you a chance to experience what it is from the source.

[[EDIT]] I just saw your post about some comment from a DIR diver to your son so you have gotten some bad attitude from a DIR diver. It's very possible that the diver was a newly branded "diving god" (like me and walked around with an attitude not because he was taught it but because he thought he was now magically transformed into wonder diver. don't let this shoe horn you into judging the system to harshly, I promise you would get a different take if you took a course or talked with an instructor.

 

[Kingpatzer]

You've let the advertizing keep you from seeing the product.

Actually, it's rather the salesmen.

Nice pitch though, you have a real future in customer relations. What's next, insult my nationality or religion?

I'm sorry, I'm so clearly mistaken. You're obviously a joy to spend the day with . . . please sign me up so I can be abused more! I can't imagine how wonderful a day diving with you must be. Maybe you can even make rude gestures at me under-water . . oh I can't wait. I'm all a twitter in anticipation!

 

[Rainer]

You choose to use the terminology. You are free to not use those words. But if you choose to use them, then you are saying that those who aren't following your method are not doing it right.

I see value and merit in much of what they say as well. But I don't think other people are wrong for not following the DIR way, and I don't go around telling them they're going to die for not doing it my way either.

And, I'm not saying you do those things. I am saying a substantial sub-population of the DIR folks do do those things. If you aren't one of those people why do you choose to associate yourself with them?


That was, again, in reference to those in the organization who latch onto the DIR way with religious zealotry.

Please point out all the posts where GUE divers are suggesting those who do not dive as GUE suggests will die? Please point out where GUE divers are suggesting only their method is right. If a substantial portion of GUE divers are doing these things, please link to all these posts. Put up or ...