Deep Diver Specialty vs Advanced Open Water

[boulderjohn]

Another factor to consider is that the PADI Deep Diver course requires the student to have at least the Adventure Diver certification. That is a rare certification that is almost AOW. It is rare because there is almost no reason not to go the last step to get the AOW. The certification primarily goes to young divers who are not old enough to do the deep dive for AOW.

Almost everyone who takes the deep diver course already has the AOW certification.

 

[scubadada]

With what agency? PADI requires 4.

Can you quote a policy statement from an operator? I find this hard to believe.

I was very surprised, SDI requires 2 dives as posted by @Rebreather Rabbit. SSI requires 3 dives.

SDI Deep Diver Course

www.tdisdi.com

NAUI also requires 3 dives.

 

[bradlw]

Just do AOW. As some of the others said all you'll get is questions and delays from the shop without it. As part of a decent advanced course you can do Deep, Navigation, Wreck, Peak performance buoyancy and an Intro to Nitrox. So, with a good shop or instructor it's not a bad course, especially if you haven't done any training in a while. Also, in my opnion the Deep speciality is not that great. It's mostly just done so you are certified to dive to 40m in the unlikely event that anyone asks!

Yeah, I get that
I suppose I really find this whole thing frustrating and frankly confusing.
I'd much rather my kids take teh full deep training with several dives required rather than just 1 dive deep as part of an introductory specialty "adventure". The advanced courses are reading more like a discover-diving class. The greater benefit will almost certainly come from teh 20-ish prerequisite dives that are required for the certification.

I get that operators might want a certification for insurance, but they will certainly want experience and proficiency insurance or not.

Seems like all of the advanced courses are just adventure introductions.... and frankly they look like money-grabs. Just another way to fish for money in exchange for abbreviated training.

 

[USdiver1]

NAUI training evolved and became more streamlined over the years. In the early years, most people went through a very intensive "Basic" course that was more intense and advanced than the current entry-level courses.

PADI training as well, certainly prior to PADI's proprietary texts and videos [pre-1978] was much more intense and advanced than post PADI published textbooks / videos. I believe the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics which included members YMCA, NAUI and eventually PADI provided national standards for scuba diver training from the late 1950s through the mid 1980s.

 

[mcohen1021]

but still I think taking the full deep specialty is likely a better use of $$ than taking a bunch of abbreviated instructions

For me, id rather have a basic understanding of many topics over being a siloed expert in one thing, regardless of whether it's diving or not.

I know sandals negril didn't offer my wife the option to choose between deep diver specialty and advanced.

 

[boulderjohn]

Seems like all of the advanced courses are just adventure introductions.... and frankly they look like money-grabs. Just another way to fish for money in exchange for abbreviated training.

As was briefly mentioned earlier, In the mid 1960's, the only certifications offered were diver and instructor. Los Angeles County saw that a very high percentage of divers were quitting diving soon after certification. They created a class that would provide more skills and offer a sampler of different kinds of diving in order to pique diver's interest. Since it was the most advanced class offered at the time other than instructor, they called it advanced. NAUI, which was born from the Los Angeles program, soon followed suit. So it was indeed created primarily as an introduction to other kinds of diving. If divers liked one of those dives, they could pursue it further on their own.

You can read about it in this history of NAUI.

 

[boulderjohn]

Seems like all of the advanced courses are just adventure introductions.... and frankly they look like money-grabs. Just another way to fish for money in exchange for abbreviated training.

Yeah--isn't it a shame that professional dive instructors are looking to be paid when they provide instruction? They have no shame. They should offer all their services for free, the way it is done by everyone else.

 

[Blackcrusader]

You're kind of right, but if anything happened to said OW diver while you were guiding them on deeper dives you might have a hard time arguing your case in a court of law. .

What court of law and for what reason would you be in a court? No diving agency or instructor or guide or divemaster etc has any legal authority on what depth a certified diver can dive to. All they can say is dive to their dive plans.

Recreational diving depths are a recommendation not a law or a rule. I've lead divers with OW to 30m depth. What law am I breaking if they have an issue?

Do tell. I am not a dive master or instructor and I do not have dive insurance as a dive professional as I am not charging anyone when I guide them. They are simply other divers joining a dive with me. I do have my own DAN insurance if other divers do not have it that is not my concern. All my regular dive buddies use DAN insurance as it covers divers to deep diving depths. DAN Basic insurance covers OW dives to... you guessed it.. 40m.. A higher insurance has unlimited depth coverage.

Now Maldives has a law that says 30m is the maximum depth for diving. It is violated all the time by guides and customers. Does anyone check your DC to check? No.

Padi 40m BSAC 50m CMAS 60m oh dear which one should I follow?

 

[Blackcrusader]

I think what you mean is recreational diving limits are 40m, but you are certainly not certified by any agency to dive deeper then the standards of your training course. I mean what is 'experienced'. What is proof of this experience, a self written logbook with dive center stamps? I think what you mean is recreational diving limits are 40m, but you are certainly not certified by any agency to dive deeper then the standards of your training course.

You clearly are wrong on this isssue. The myth that you are only certified to your training depth has been discussed many times. Even PADI tell you there are 40m limits for OW certified divers.
Padi only says you should do more courses for deeper diving not you must. Very clear differences between should and must.

In 1986 even the PADI OW exam had a question for the maximum depth allowed for OW. The answer was 40m but in an emergency 42m

A dive operation in Belize would take newly certified divers to 40m depth. Padi complained to the Belize government about it but they could do nothing about it.

https://scubaboard.com/community/th...lt-as-aow-is-to-advanced-diving.650458/page-4

 

[lowwall]

I think what you mean is recreational diving limits are 40m, but you are certainly not certified by any agency to dive deeper then the standards of your training course.

This is incorrect. OW divers are certified to 40m.

I went into this in detail on a previous thread:

Post in thread 'certification limits and how they are considered now days....'

Jan 10, 2023

I'm going to repost something I wrote on a similar thread in 2021. But the short version is there is only one recreational dive limit for WRSTC members (which includes PADI and SSI) for OW divers and that's 40 meters.

Of course local ops can put whatever limits they want, but they are either ignorant or lying if they say lesser limits are an agency requirement.

"PADI is a member of the WRSTC and must follow its standards.

It's interesting that the WRSTC has almost scrubbed the 40m certification limit from their site. Note there is no depth limit given in the Open Water diver...

• lowwall

• 
•