An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[BoltSnap]

Hello BoltSnap

My condolences on the death of your cousin.
In order to place this sad story in our topic you have to know with some certainty what part diving with air had.
The other thing is that the friend was able to cope with the psychological and probably physical stress of rescuing a dead friend even with air, for which I have the greatest respect.

Nitrogen narcosis was believed to be the culprit. I don't remember all the details but it seems he had an issue with his regulator, nothing major, he had enough air to get him to his deco stop. He was found with a regulator out of his mouth and hugging some part of the sub with his hands. Again, I don't remember all the details now. My friend who brought him up narrated to me what he had seen at that time. The friend is an experienced commercial diver and a dive instructor who is the only dive instructor I respect and have a good relationship with him in Libya.


-----------------------------------------------

BTW, a dive "luminary" that was mentioned in this thread was full of hot air. I knew him personally and dealt with him for decades, since the early 90's. He was a talker and full of "out of this world" stories of what he had done in his earlier years. Every time I met him, his dive count increased by 1000's. He had to prove to everyone that he was God's gift to diving and must surpass everyone.

 

[David Carron]

The togo is generally considered to be at the extreme upper end of recreational air diving in France. It probably sees an average of ten or so divers per day with a 15l of air.

 

[rddvet]

I dont understand how people claiming they are technical divers can keep defending deep air- mental impairment is anathema to technical diving which is about complexity and risk mitigation

I dive Trimix 100% of my ccr dives regardless of depth. Last weekend I dove 32% OC to 95 feet in a cave and was narced out of my mind. I enjoyed the dive since I was s--tfaced, but about halfway through I realized I was narced out of my mind and had to really focus to clear my brain.
Anyone who pushes deep air nowadays is either a moron, clueless, thinks they're "hard" and can handle it or a cheap ass. I can kind of understand being a cheap ass since He is so pricey for OC, but my choice would be to not do the dive.

 

[rddvet]

. Have you been to 50m on air? Have you dove with me to 60m? You don't know how anyone other than yourself reacts to narcossis.

Yes. Narced AF

I "THINK" I can think clearly and make appropriate decisions while affected by it.

I changed that for you. You're delusional if you think that you are not affected by deep air at 50-60 meters. You may think you're not narced and you may think you can handle anything that's thrown at you. You're probably right 90% of the time. But when your buddy has an emergency and you're too narced to help and he dies, tell his wife how awesome it is not being narced at 60m on air. When she sues you, you will have an uphill battle.
I'm surprised we're still having these discussions nowadays. If you want to do those dives, do them. But I would suggest doing them solo or having a serious conversation with your buddy.
You start overbreathing at 60m and add a little CO2 to your "minor narcosis" and you're fan is gonna be dirtied up with sh-t

 

[Boarderguy]

But when your buddy has an emergency and you're too narced to help and he dies, tell his wife how awesome it is not being narced at 60m on air. When she sues you, you will have an uphill battle.

I'm no dive professional and have zero responsibilities for other divers in any legal sense.

I'm surprised we're still having these discussions nowadays. If you want to do those dives, do them. But I would suggest doing them solo or having a serious conversation with your buddy.

Most of mine are solo. The first 10-15 were with a buddy but he often isn't available when I am.

You start overbreathing at 60m and add a little CO2 to your "minor narcosis" and you're fan is gonna be dirtied up with sh-t

There is only 1 deep dive I do that might involve some effort if my scooter crapped out on me but I would just go to shore right there rather than do the nearly half mile swim back to the entry site. It's a 25 minute scoot south from the entry and then the pipeline goes to 300+. That's one of my favorite sites. The other is a 10 minute surface scoot to a navigation buoy that drops into 170fsw just below the discharge for another pipe structure. A nearly 5 minute free fall into the dark abyss, again often solo, is the best. It's about a 20 minute kick up the hill and I do that often with the scoot clipped off. Around here you have to find structure because the muddy bottom doesn't bode well for proper critter growth.

I don't do penetration. I don't go squeezing into places I could get stuck. I'm an OW diver that likes to see the things, not be in the things. Cold, dark, and away from all the people.

 

[eightytwenty]

Math not your strong suit? 50m is about 165. I'm in that range to about 170 often. Most of what I want to see is between 150 and 170. Occasionally I'll go a bit deeper just because.

The 210ish is just up go near the 1.6 ppo2. A check in the block.

lol.

 

[rddvet]

I'm no dive professional and have zero responsibilities for other divers in any legal sense.

Most of mine are solo. The first 10-15 were with a buddy but he often isn't available when I am.

There is only 1 deep dive I do that might involve some effort if my scooter crapped out on me but I would just go to shore right there rather than do the nearly half mile swim back to the entry site. It's a 25 minute scoot south from the entry and then the pipeline goes to 300+. That's one of my favorite sites. The other is a 10 minute surface scoot to a navigation buoy that drops into 170fsw just below the discharge for another pipe structure. A nearly 5 minute free fall into the dark abyss, again often solo, is the best. It's about a 20 minute kick up the hill and I do that often with the scoot clipped off. Around here you have to find structure because the muddy bottom doesn't bode well for proper critter growth.

I don't do penetration. I don't go squeezing into places I could get stuck. I'm an OW diver that likes to see the things, not be in the things. Cold, dark, and away from all the people.

Not a dive professional in no way shape or form protects you from civil litigation. You're living a fallacy.

You dive how you want to dive. I personally don't care what you do to yourself. My issue is when people bring others along for the ride and that person is expecting you to be their backup in an emergency.
Your posts that I've seen on these subjects don't fit with my beliefs/opinions and clearly not with most others here other than Celt, but that guy's a whole other story and I try to ignore he exists. They also don't fit with the most up to date recommendations by agencies. We can disagree with you as much as we want, but you have to make the choice yourself. But imo you're living a fallacy lying to yourself about what is safe. As long as you're not promoting deep air here for others without the knowledge to understand why it's a very poor choice, it is what it is. Just don't try to teach other people that deep air is safe and be honest with your buddies. Other than that you do you.

 

[Underwater Tourist]

@Boarderguy if you have a buddy who dives with you (air or tmx), can you ask him to film you at 60meters on air doing some math or other tasks (tying shoelaces etc) without you knowing ahead of time what he will come up with? And then the same tasks at 10meters?

 

[eightytwenty]

Not a dive professional in no way shape or form protects you from civil litigation. You're living a phalacy.

You dive how you want to dive. I personally don't care what you do to yourself. My issue is when people bring others along for the ride and that person is expecting you to be their backup in an emergency.
Your posts that I've seen on these subjects don't fit with my beliefs/opinions and clearly not with most others here other than Celt, but that guy's a whole other story and I try to ignore he exists. They also don't fit with the most up to date recommendations by agencies. We can disagree with you as much as we want, but you have to make the choice yourself. But imo you're living a phallacy lying to yourself about what is safe. As long as you're not promoting deep air here for others without the knowledge to understand why it's a very poor choice, it is what it is. Just don't try to teach other people that deep air is safe and be honest with your buddies. Other than that you do you.

His first post in this thread was trying to convince the OP, who had already stated that he was uncomfortable with air at 50m (much less 60), that deep air was the way to go with these dives. His "respect my decision" malarkey is a feeble attempt to cover his ass.

I have no respect for tough guys who try and push their unsafe practices onto people who are uncomfortable with them or may not know any better. When you get to that point, you deserve to get what's coming to you.

 

[Boarderguy]

Not a dive professional in no way shape or form protects you from civil litigation. You're living a phalacy.

You dive how you want to dive. I personally don't care what you do to yourself. My issue is when people bring others along for the ride and that person is expecting you to be their backup in an emergency.
Your posts that I've seen on these subjects don't fit with my beliefs/opinions and clearly not with most others here other than Celt, but that guy's a whole other story and I try to ignore he exists. They also don't fit with the most up to date recommendations by agencies. We can disagree with you as much as we want, but you have to make the choice yourself. But imo you're living a phallacy lying to yourself about what is safe. As long as you're not promoting deep air here for others without the knowledge to understand why it's a very poor choice, it is what it is. Just don't try to teach other people that deep air is safe and be honest with your buddies. Other than that you do you.

Cute spelling and innuendo.