Tips on starting diving doubles

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Okay, I’m going to have to comment here, as I have been working in the occupational safety and health field for decades, and am a retired Certified Safety Professional. I also have a Master of Science in Public Health (MSPH) degree, specializing in industrial hygiene.

First, let me address this thing about “muscle memory”; there is no such thing. Muscles don’t have memory—brains do. What you are really talking about is repeated exercises of the same thing so that they became “second nature.” But this isn’t “muscle memory. Muscles don’t remember, they contract.

Now, someone above mentioned “failure points” when talking about independent doubles and then about “cheater bars,” which are a means of linking two tanks through their valve without the permanence of a manifold. The “cheater bar” attaches to the O-ring on each valve. Yes, these are potential failure points, but the real question is “when do they fail?” Well, If the yokes are not sufficiently tight, or cockeyed, they’ll fail when pressurized. If the harness system is using two bands, the potential for a cockeyed configuration is virtually eliminated. If pressurized, and they don’t fail, the possibility of failure as remote at best, and nearly down to zero.

PJ Okinawa Dive003 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
This is a photo I took of a U.S. Air Force Pararescue dive for currency (and lobsters) off Okinawa in 1968. We are using twin 72s, with the U.S. Divers Company twin manifold. This manifold consists of a brass-to-brass connection, which when enough force is applied, will remain tight and leak-free. I have a special large crescent wrench to tighten my own twins (I use smaller tanks, but like back-mounted doubles). This manifold also has a 500 psi J-valve on one of the tanks, so that is the “reserve” air. Breathing gets hard, you trip the J-valve, and surface (this was before gauges and the safety stop).

In the above photo, count the number of failure points on their scuba units:
1. Manifold O-ring.
2. Calypso regualator first stage, 2 O-rings and one seat.
3. Calypso regulator second stage, 1 seat.

So the entire scuba has only 5 failure points. Now, go out and count the failure points on your scuba units. See who has more.

142720099_191814152628614_6615637713269724809_o by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here you can see the gear that was worn on these parascuba jumps (here by the three PJs who jumped on Gemini VIII).

142309158_5274939835851296_4955705790799075275_o by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here you can see the clearances for jumping out of the HU-16B Albatross’ hatch (it wasn’t actually a door, as this was a water-tight hatch for use on the water.

Parascuba-BAW image001 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
We made parascuba jumps with twin 42 cubic foot tanks with this U.S. Divers manifold, and never had so much as a single leak with them. If anything would cause a leak, it would be a PJ (Pararescueman) going through his lines in a flip, and that never happened (we did have a manifold guard, but there were still scenarios where it was possible to cause problems.

What I’m saying is that the failure points on the older style manifold are fewer than on the new, multi-outlet manifolds with their shutoff valves. This is due to the fewer parts and actual failure points.

IMG_1629 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here’s my use of the “cheater bar,” which has two extra O-ring connections. Note that I’m using double bands to prevent any movement of the tanks.

SeaRat
NAUI #2710
 
Issue with independent doubles is that if you have a catastrophic gas loss behind the head you are simply guessing which valve to turn and hoping that solves the problem. If it doesn't then you've cut off the only reliable gas source you have.
Anyone who thinks they can get to a valve behind their head in every situation while under stress is probably lying to themselves.

In sidemount you simply look.
 
Issue with independent doubles is that if you have a catastrophic gas loss behind the head you are simply guessing which valve to turn and hoping that solves the problem. If it doesn't then you've cut off the only reliable gas source you have.
Anyone who thinks they can get to a valve behind their head in every situation while under stress is probably lying to themselves.

In sidemount you simply look.
Have you, or anyone you know, ever had a “catastrophic gas loss”? I’ve been diving since 1959, and never experienced this situation. But then, I’m a vintage diver, and sometimes dive a Mistral or Healthways Hybrid Gold Label single stage, two hose regulator which has a total of 6 moving parts. If I’m really concerned, I have a tank with a manifold with duel posts, and put a single hose regulator on one post, and the double hose on the other.

IMG_1778 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
If I really need to know what’s happening on my back, I take the unit off and look.

Broxton Dive 8-10-2015-3 by John Ratliff, on Flickr

SeaRat
NAUI #2710
 
!!!!!CATASTROPHIC GAS LOSS!!!!!!
!!!!! OH MY GOD !!!!!
The guy is diving to 30 feet for Christ's sake!
If one side blows out switch to the other side and come up. He's never going to be anywhere close to deco, he can just come up.
Why is independent doubles worse than one single?
I never hear anyone worrying about catastrophic gas loss doing benign dives to 30' using a single.
You guys are experts at running scenarios.

"Catastrophic gas loss" to me is when someone shoots a hole in your fuel tank, or your beans wear off before you get to the National Farting Competition, not this application.
 
!!!!!CATASTROPHIC GAS LOSS!!!!!!
!!!!! OH MY GOD !!!!!
The guy is diving to 30 feet for Christ's sake!
If one side blows out switch to the other side and come up. He's never going to be anywhere close to deco, he can just come up.
Why is independent doubles worse than one single?
I never hear anyone worrying about catastrophic gas loss doing benign dives to 30' using a single.
You guys are experts at running scenarios.

"Catastrophic gas loss" to me is when someone shoots a hole in your fuel tank, or your beans wear off before you get to the National Farting Competition, not this application.
Or the OP could just put together a system than isn't composed of Mike Nelson vintage gear (with questionable parts availability) off Ebay and have room to grow into more sophisticated actual modern diving.
 
Or the OP could just put together a system than isn't composed of Mike Nelson vintage gear (with questionable parts availability) off Ebay and have room to grow into more sophisticated actual modern diving.
I think we all know that that isn't in the cards here.
 
Yes, I've read it. US Navy personnel (and military divers in general) sometimes have to take on certain levels of risk in order accomplish the mission. I have great respect for Navy divers but it's a different type of diving altogether. Sport divers are under no such constraints. We don't really need to "manage" risk: we have ways to cut the risk to virtually zero, even for fairly complex and challenging dives. The stiff and inflexible safety rules are part of what enables this. And we always have Option #1 available.

In 2025 there are no good reasons to ever dive with convoluted junk like a "cheater bar" or back-mounted independent doubles. Proper isolation manifolds are cheap and readily available (along with the training on how to use them safely). If someone wants to dive with obsolete gear due to nostalgia or poverty or whatever then go ahead, do whatever you want. You probably won't die. But you're not going to convince the rest of us that it makes sense or is even remotely a smart idea.
OK, what I am taking away is that your stiff and inflexible safety rules reduce risk to virtually zero. Therefore, what happens if the virtual zero risk, let's say a very low probability/extreme consequence risk occurs. Example, one of your dive pairs seriously wedge themselves in a very narrow cave passage (despite them wearing the slick dive gear you fiercely promote)? Do you have a contingency plan for this?
 
@rjack321 I'm diving a set of old 72's, because I've heard the buoyancy is good on those. The valves are modern 3/4 inch standard. I'm using a pair of vintage bands, because they're what fit the tanks and I got them cheaply enough that, if I decide to switch to modern bands so I can use a manifold, or decide doubles are too cumbersome and not worth it altogether, I'm not going to cry over the lost funds. Spending $160 on piranha bands only to decide doubles hurt my back too much would be annoying. Other than that, the only remotely old piece of gear I'm using is a conshelf 21, which is a reg that I got for free and will stop using if/when parts ever stop being available.

Point being, it's not like I'm kludging together some system out of parts salvaged from a museum. If I wanna switch to a more modern setup, I simply buy a set of modern 7.5 inch bands, a manifold and valves, and slap them on a pair of AL 80's. I'm just not sure I want to do that yet, so I'm trying a simpler (in terms of requiring less equipment/less intensive setup) approach. Is that really so bad?
 
Okay, I’m going to have to comment here, as I have been working in the occupational safety and health field for decades, and am a retired Certified Safety Professional. I also have a Master of Science in Public Health (MSPH) degree, specializing in industrial hygiene.

First, let me address this thing about “muscle memory”; there is no such thing. Muscles don’t have memory—brains do. What you are really talking about is repeated exercises of the same thing so that they became “second nature.” But this isn’t “muscle memory. Muscles don’t remember, they contract.

Now, someone above mentioned “failure points” when talking about independent doubles and then about “cheater bars,” which are a means of linking two tanks through their valve without the permanence of a manifold. The “cheater bar” attaches to the O-ring on each valve. Yes, these are potential failure points, but the real question is “when do they fail?” Well, If the yokes are not sufficiently tight, or cockeyed, they’ll fail when pressurized. If the harness system is using two bands, the potential for a cockeyed configuration is virtually eliminated. If pressurized, and they don’t fail, the possibility of failure as remote at best, and nearly down to zero.

PJ Okinawa Dive003 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
This is a photo I took of a U.S. Air Force Pararescue dive for currency (and lobsters) off Okinawa in 1968. We are using twin 72s, with the U.S. Divers Company twin manifold. This manifold consists of a brass-to-brass connection, which when enough force is applied, will remain tight and leak-free. I have a special large crescent wrench to tighten my own twins (I use smaller tanks, but like back-mounted doubles). This manifold also has a 500 psi J-valve on one of the tanks, so that is the “reserve” air. Breathing gets hard, you trip the J-valve, and surface (this was before gauges and the safety stop).

In the above photo, count the number of failure points on their scuba units:
1. Manifold O-ring.
2. Calypso regualator first stage, 2 O-rings and one seat.
3. Calypso regulator second stage, 1 seat.

So the entire scuba has only 5 failure points. Now, go out and count the failure points on your scuba units. See who has more.

142720099_191814152628614_6615637713269724809_o by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here you can see the gear that was worn on these parascuba jumps (here by the three PJs who jumped on Gemini VIII).

142309158_5274939835851296_4955705790799075275_o by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here you can see the clearances for jumping out of the HU-16B Albatross’ hatch (it wasn’t actually a door, as this was a water-tight hatch for use on the water.

Parascuba-BAW image001 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
We made parascuba jumps with twin 42 cubic foot tanks with this U.S. Divers manifold, and never had so much as a single leak with them. If anything would cause a leak, it would be a PJ (Pararescueman) going through his lines in a flip, and that never happened (we did have a manifold guard, but there were still scenarios where it was possible to cause problems.

What I’m saying is that the failure points on the older style manifold are fewer than on the new, multi-outlet manifolds with their shutoff valves. This is due to the fewer parts and actual failure points.

IMG_1629 by John Ratliff, on Flickr
Here’s my use of the “cheater bar,” which has two extra O-ring connections. Note that I’m using double bands to prevent any movement of the tanks.

SeaRat
NAUI #2710
Is that an MC-1 canopy?
 

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