Review Diving the Avelo System

[nadwidny]

Imagine swimming down to 105' and still being perfectly neutral. Grabbing your camera to take a pic and still having a perfect hover.

I can do that with just a backplate and wing and doesn't need an ill-thought out, cludgy system that is chock full of failure points. This is just throwing over-priced equipment at a skills problem. If someone needs this to maintain neutral at 105' in a standard BC, then they shouldn't be down there in the first place.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@nadwidny To me, there's nothing strictly wrong with Avelo. It adds a few failure points in terms of batteries, bladder, pumps, and valves, but Battery, pump, and valve failure, while they might ruin your dive day, wouldn't be dangerous, based on how the system works. And realistically, you're eliminating the risk of a popped/leaky BCD, which would also spoil a dive day. The bladder rupturing would be an issue it seems, but I haven't heard of that happening thus far, and supposedly the company's testing indicates it won't. If it were to happen, well, that's why you have a dive buddy I suppose. Additionally, you are eliminating the risk of a stuck power inflator, which is actually a decently risky prospect, albeit an easy one to fix or avoid if you keep your head and maintain your gear well.

Beyond that, it's a clever idea, and does offer a different, if not necessarily better form of diving. $4000 for the system ($5000 if you want two hydrotanks) is hardly the most expensive form of dive gear ever, but it's still quite a lot considering you'll still need to spend money on a regset (~$600 on the low end), dive computer with AI (which is no longer optional, ~$1000 for a Peregrine TX and transmitter), and Avelo mode ($100). Thus, your "bare bones" cost of diving Avelo is around 6 grand. Compare that to when I bought my dive gear, all new, decent mid range stuff, for $1800 (Cressi Aquawing Bp/w BCD, Tusa Rs1001 regset, Peregrine w/o AI) and can buy AL 80's used at $30 apiece if I'm lucky. Point is, it's an extremely expensive system to own. And you realistically can't travel with it by air, because the tank is part of the system, which is a bummer.

And that's the biggest issue in my book: the tank. A proprietary piece of gear that can't be transported by air without massive difficulty and costs, which costs 2x what even expensive tanks like Faber 149's do, and generally means that, even if you own the system, you're intrinsically tied to Avelo diver centers. Part of the thrill, IMO, of owning your own gear is being able to go where you want and do what you like with it. With Avelo, unless I'm fortunate enough to live in a good location or want to pay for a system to faff around my local lake in (kinda overkill), I'm stuck renting.

Which is fine, I guess, a lot of divers rent gear, but it does seem to guarantee Avelo will have to wait a while at least before direct to consumer sales take off, if they ever do. For someone like me that hates renting gear as a concept, it's something of a buzzkill. Tack on the high price of owning the system, and it does make me wonder if the long term plan even include trying to sell to individual divers, or if Avelo's goal is simply to be a major attraction at high end dive locations and nothing more.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

I can do that with just a backplate and wing and doesn't need an ill-thought out, cludgy system that is chock full of failure points. This is just throwing over-priced equipment at a skills problem. If someone needs this to maintain neutral at 105' in a standard BC, then they shouldn't be down there in the first place.

Well I have a couple of thousand dives on a BP&W and I've never been perfectly neutral with a 100' range without adjustments. I'd love to see you do that. Most people who adjust for neutral at 25' will need to add air to their BCD by the time they hit 60' and more as they go deeper. I've never met anyone who could be neutral on a BCD from 15' all the way to 105'.

Avelo actually has fewer points of failure than standard scuba. Have you ever seen a shoulder dump valve fail? I have. it blew off a divers shoulder at 70'. Fortunately she was next to the descent line and could grab it. Her husband grabbed her and together they ascended to the boat. Oh and let's talk about zip ties. Has it ever occurred to you that your bcd is literally held together by zip ties? The deflator is zip tied to the hose which is zip tied to the bcd. Avelo isn't held together by zip ties.

Avelo divers never need to ditch weight the way divers on standard scuba do. Why? It's safer. There is no balloon of air whose failure requires you to ditch weight. When something goes wrong on Avelo it happens very slowly and is easy to manage.

Compared to Avelo Standard Scuba is the ill thought out and cludgy system with many documented failure points divers need to train on to be safe.

I applaud your confidence in your opinion but think you actually should think this through a bit.

 

[Ukmc]

Well I have a couple of thousand dives on a BP&W and I've never been perfectly neutral with a 100' range without adjustments. I'd love to see you do that. Most people who adjust for neutral at 25' will need to add air to their BCD by the time they hit 60' and more as they go deeper. I've never met anyone who could be neutral on a BCD from 15' all the way to 105'.

Avelo actually has fewer points of failure than standard scuba. Have you ever seen a shoulder dump valve fail? I have. it blew off a divers shoulder at 70'. Fortunately she was next to the descent line and could grab it. Her husband grabbed her and together they ascended to the boat. Oh and let's talk about zip ties. Has it ever occurred to you that your bcd is literally held together by zip ties? The deflator is zip tied to the hose which is zip tied to the bcd. Avelo isn't held together by zip ties.

Avelo divers never need to ditch weight the way divers on standard scuba do. Why? It's safer. There is no balloon of air whose failure requires you to ditch weight. When something goes wrong on Avelo it happens very slowly and is easy to manage.

Compared to Avelo Standard Scuba is the ill thought out and cludgy system with many documented failure points divers need to train on to be safe.

I applaud your confidence in your opinion but think you actually should think this through a bit.

I appreciate your thoughtful input on Avelo system, however, I would like to call your BS on dangers of blown BCD valve. I had a corrugated hose disconnect once from the inflator and bladder fill up with water. Guess what happened - nothing. If you don’t dive with much air in your BC - which you shouldn’t - nothing happens. If you are overweighted so much you need a bunch of air in the bladder, you have other problems. I bet I touch inflator less than you would need to touch a pump on Avelo.
I would love to try it sometime, but I don’t think the system will survive the test of time.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

I appreciate your thoughtful input on Avelo system, however, I would like to call your BS on dangers of blown BCD valve. I had a corrugated hose disconnect once from the inflator and bladder fill up with water. Guess what happened - nothing. If you don’t dive with much air in your BC - which you shouldn’t - nothing happens. If you are overweighted so much you need a bunch of air in the bladder, you have other problems. I bet I touch inflator less than you would need to touch a pump on Avelo.
I would love to try it sometime, but I don’t think the system will survive the test of time.

Uhh, well I'll let other people comment on blown BCD valves since you don't accept my feedback. I'll just note this is why you have to be able to ditch weight.

I hope you get the opportunity to try Avelo someday. I think it will surprise you.

 

[iliketopetsharks]

Avelo divers never need to ditch weight the way divers on standard scuba do. Why? It's safer. There is no balloon of air whose failure requires you to ditch weight.

You don't "need" to ditch weight if you dive a balanced rig either

 

[tridacna]

A product is going nowhere when you have to invent “innovative” solutions to non-existent problems.

They must have very deep pockets indeed. I’m sure they’ll be at DEMA in November with a huge booth and more exciting announcements. I can’t imagine that they’re cashflow positive yet.

 

[Ukmc]

You don't "need" to ditch weight if you dive a balanced rig either

This was my point exactly! I know that with 7lbs of lead in salt water, I do not need air in the BCD for the entire dive., so flooded bladder is not an issue. I dive 8 lbs to be comfortable at the safety stop and barely need any air in the bladder throughout the dive, which means I don’t have to do much with depth changes. My other point was, that a dramatic statement about descend line being close… or what? - she would drop down into abyss like a rock??? Only if she is severely overweighted. With a balanced rig, even if a small amount of air in BC is lost - it can be counteracted by a leisurely use of fins….
Anyhow, I like how @tridacna phrased it and a sentiment by many others - “innovative solution” for a non-existent problem.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

@EdMcNeill09 shut your mouth. We don’t disrespect zip ties in this house.

@Ukmc In all seriousness, I do think Avelo probably does offer more convenient buoyancy control than standard scuba, at least in terms of stability with depth change. I'm extremely skeptical that it's worth paying so much extra for, and generally I'm not fond of the limitations (see my above comments), but I do think the science and engineering is impressive, and I'm sure it makes for a fun ride. Hopefully the company pulls through, because I wanna see where this goes.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

This was my point exactly! I know that with 7lbs of lead in salt water, I do not need air in the BCD for the entire dive., so flooded bladder is not an issue. I dive 8 lbs to be comfortable at the safety stop and barely need any air in the bladder throughout the dive, which means I don’t have to do much with depth changes. My other point was, that a dramatic statement about descend line being close… or what? - she would drop down into abyss like a rock??? Only if she is severely overweighted. With a balanced rig, even if a small amount of air in BC is lost - it can be counteracted by a leisurely use of fins….
Anyhow, I like how @tridacna phrased it and a sentiment by many others - “innovative solution” for a non-existent problem.

You don't "need" to ditch weight if you dive a balanced rig either

So let's talk about a balanced rig and neutral buoyancy. A balanced rig isn't actually neutral most of the dive. A balanced rig is intentionally heavy at the start of a dive requiring the diver to fin gently upwards at depth to maintain desired depth. The diver may also keep their lungs more full of gas than otherwise necessary. That's not neutral.

The general practice of checking weight at 15' with 500 psi in your tank is a solid way to ensure you are balanced. Also as a Scuba Professional it ensures that you can be negative if necessary at any point in the dive by dumping air and exhaling. For example if you need to slow a divers ascent.

Bottom line here is that a balanced rig is negative throughout the dive until you breathe off the excess weight. Typically 4-5 lbs.

Of course you get neutral by adding some air to your bcd to offset the weight. enough to compensate for the negative weight. Not a lot obviously but more as you go deeper.

Diving a Steel 80 that remains negative throughout the dive is beneficial here as we all know weighting for aluminum tanks requires more lead.