Dissapointed in RAJA(!?)

[cetacean]

The vast majority of my diving is in the Caribbean and the adjacent Atlantic, I have dove Fiji and Sulawesi. And both of those were nice. But after the hype, I expected more.

The fish in the places I went tended to be small and rather shy.

I think the angels of the Caribbean: Queen, French, Grey and Rock Beauty, stack up favorably against anything I saw in the Pacific and Coral Triangle. The Nassau groupers stack up well against anything. And spotted eagle rays are way cool. The gorgonians of the Caribbean are great in variety and form and the Caribbean has many lovely sponges.

The odd thing was that most of the coral colonies I saw were pretty small, there were some big ones and some REALLY big ones. But the Caribbean has some really nice hard corals if you can find some healthy ones.

Now, Indonesia had some really cool flatworms that were big (well 1” +), and Pygmy seahorses, and a bunch of nudibranchs … all good fun.

In the Caribbean, I am used to taking photos of the butterfly fish. And when you use a strobe (I do 100% of the time) , the scales reflect the light and I have to be careful to not overexpose. But nail the strobe setting and the effect is great, I did not have that happen with Indopacific butterflies and that was a disappointment.

Was the diving good? Sure. Was it worth it? For me it was. I suppose anything can be overhyped.

@PatW

Sulawesi and Fiji are nice diving destinations, but do not represent the explosion of life available underwater in places like R4.

The Caribbean has ~65 varieties of coral, the Coral Triangle (R4 being close to the center) has over 600 varieties of coral. Bluntly, the Caribbean is like diving in a bathtub - it's warm, it's nice, but it's very limited.

Speciation (as part of evolution) is visible in different places through different species. Angelfish are a good example. You mention you like the angels found in the Carribean. The most commonly found ones are the Queen, Blue, French, Gray, and the Rock Beauty. In the Coral Triangle that number is 10x, and they are still discovering local or regional variations that may be new species. As an example, for me, the juvenile emperor angelfish is easily more striking than any variety in the Carribean.

 

[scubajet]

@scubajet

When you say "still very little schools of fish" are you referring to a type of fish you are not seeing? (like barracuda, jacks, or sweetlips?). We dived Cape Kri multiple times last summer and these fish were present (at depth) in very large numbers. This vis could have been a little better, but the fish were definitely there.

It might help if you explained what you were expecting to see(?)

Hi cetacean,

Some of our group went to pam yesterday and told us it was a different world compared to kri. So ill be on the boat tomorrow to move there!

Obviously cool things are seen at various divespots at different times and never a guarantee. But since i worked in Bonaire for a while, i was looking to go for a place where there are large schools of (any really) fish.
They dont have much of those in Bonaire.

In the 7 dives i did around Kri there were hardly any schools- like 30 barracudas are not really what i would call "fish soup".
So i was very surprised about that.

 

[tarponchik]

one more thing, we're not diving in the aquarium; those fishes and critters can move anywhere they like. I recalled years back, had an amazing dive in chicken reef Kri, great viz, so many things, bumphead school, giant trevally, 1-2 sharks ect, it was real fish soup. So, we asked our guide to repeat this location while he proposed cape Kri not far away. We insisted, and what we got? practically nothing.

Same thing had happened to us at Marsa Shagra last November. We went along the North side of the bay almost at dusk and were under impression that every possible fish and their grandma got out of their holes and swam around us. We did this dive the next day at the same time and the reef was deserted.

 

[USdiver1]

Too many divers? That is the problem.
Nice site but some divers should never be allowed to dive there.
There is no solution for that.

Sure there is. Better training for the divers and a means of policing and fining the operators whose customers and staff engage in bad behavior. Today with the prolifferation of Go Pro cameras, documenting abuses should not be too hard.

 

[scubajet]

Sure there is. Better training for the divers and a means of policing and fining the operators whose customers and staff engage in bad behavior. Today with the prolifferation of Go Pro cameras, documenting abuses should not be too hard.

I totally agree, In Bonaire, if you would SIT on the bloody reef ór the sand, you would get a warning from the divemaster and next a talk with the manager. And this was a big resort.
But, i see many people have bad boyuancy. They cannot backkick. They have a kneedrop, to much weight, lack of training. So they need to hold on to the reef for balance and make up a "one finger" ******** story.
They use the pointsticks to stick in the reef. They dont point, they are for balance. These items were forbidden in our resort.

Also, many people buy very big cameras and still make sh*t fotos. Its because of the lack of training, guidance and experience. You can tell it by the way they use and aim the camera. Those big cameras make them even more challenged buoyancywise.

We would hover above and gently guide the photographers out of the reef by the tank, often even when they did not realise...... they are often to taskloaded. That was fun.

Strict regulations and back up by management and you can regain respect for the reef again.

But obviously, on the shoredivesites the damage was way bigger than on the boatdivereefs or housereefs...

 

[cetacean]

I totally agree, In Bonaire, if you would SIT on the bloody reef ór the sand, you would get a warning from the divemaster and next a talk with the manager. And this was a big resort.
But, i see many people have bad boyuancy. They cannot backkick. They have a kneedrop, to much weight, lack of training. So they need to hold on to the reef for balance and make up a "one finger" ******** story.
They use the pointsticks to stick in the reef. They dont point, they are for balance. These items were forbidden in our resort.

Also, many people buy very big cameras and still make sh*t fotos. Its because of the lack of training, guidance and experience. You can tell it by the way they use and aim the camera. Those big cameras make them even more challenged buoyancywise.

We would hover above and gently guide the photographers out of the reef by the tank, often even when they did not realise...... they are often to taskloaded. That was fun.

Strict regulations and back up by management and you can regain respect for the reef again.

But obviously, on the shoredivesites the damage was way bigger than on the boatdivereefs or housereefs...

@scubajet

Most people refer to them as "muck sticks"... and "gently guide the photographers out of the reef by the tank" sounds very odd (like if you tried that with the people I dive with there would likely be a very loud discussion back on the boat...)

Actually - almost everything you wrote seems slightly off.
"out of the reef..." (which way is "out"?)
"pointsticks..."
"big cameras"

Bonaire is a shadow of what it once was (and that was never really "amazing" to start with, although the diving ). There is certainly a wide variety of diving experience (which doesn't have to to correlate to diving ability, but often does). This means that many of US or European divers you may meet in Indonesia (or Fiji, or...) are usually much more experienced that who you meet in the Carribean.

You're complaining a bit about your experience in R4, yet you keep referring to Bonaire as a reference.

Bonaire on its best day would struggle to compete with R4 at it's worst. Just feels odd...

 

[scubajet]

It kinda sounds like maybe the op you are diving with isn't interested in giving you the best experience in Raja or they are limited by time or distance. We just got back from Raja on Damai 2 and they went out of their way to make sure we dove with the least amount of divers on each dive. We tried to communicate with the other dive boats and did some not as popular dives and had mind blowing dives. We dove cape kri (which should always be done with some current) and had 100s of sweet lips and snappers (which are always there down deep) We also had huge schools of Spadefish, barricudas, and huge school of jacks up shallow. So I think you just had a bad dive or a bad guide. We spent the least amount of time in the central because of the bleaching and because it gets so crowded. We dove Sawandarek and the guides and divers from other boats would not stop tapping... it drove us crazy! Misool is lovely because they only allow one boat at a time on the main dive sites and the north has great dives as well.. Keep diving and dive with an op that doesn't want to dump you on a site with too many other boats. Raja is amazing in the off season as well and there are far less boats to contend with!

Thank you for this message, what do you mean by "the North"? North of Raja or north of Misool?

@scubajet

Most people refer to them as "muck sticks"... and "gently guide the photographers out of the reef by the tank" sounds very odd (like if you tried that with the people I dive with there would likely be a very loud discussion back on the boat...)

Actually - almost everything you wrote seems slightly off.
"out of the reef..." (which way is "out"?)
"pointsticks..."
"big cameras"

Bonaire is a shadow of what it once was (and that was never really "amazing" to start with, although the diving ). There is certainly a wide variety of diving experience (which doesn't have to to correlate to diving ability, but often does). This means that many of US or European divers you may meet in Indonesia (or Fiji, or...) are usually much more experienced that who you meet in the Carribean.

You're complaining a bit about your experience in R4, yet you keep referring to Bonaire as a reference.

Bonaire on its best day would struggle to compete with R4 at it's worst. Just feels odd...

 

[drichelson]

I just finished 3 weeks of diving in Raja Ampat including an amazing liveaboard in the Misool Area. The dive sites you mentioned (and others in the eastern Dampier Strait) have experienced a coral die off/bleaching event in the past few months. All the dive sites around Misool were pristine and overflowing with life. Many of the more western Dampier Strait sites were also fantastic (Sawandarek, Citrus Corner, Manta Sandy, Manta Ridge)

Relevant links:

Cyanobacteria in Raja Ampat: Trouble in paradise

In the biodiversity oasis of Raja Ampat, cyanobacteria poses a serious threat to the health of coral reefs. Is tourism to be blamed?

oceanographicmagazine.com

An Update: Coral Bleaching Event in Raja Ampat - Indo Ocean Project

Indo Ocean Project is a marine conservation program in Indonesia. Join our conservation divemaster internship and become a research diver!

indooceanproject.org

My photos/videos from Misool area Jan 2025: iCloud Photo Sharing

 

[jeremyl]

I just left R4 a few hours ago, after 12 days, 21 dives. I have been twice before - both times on Mermaid LOB... 10yrs and 5yrs ago.

I do not think it is nearly as good as I remember... fish-wise or coral-wise. But of couse how good is my memory v/s how much has it changed??? Some of both likely. Too many people, climate change, overfishing... the reefs will degrade. When I went 10yrs ago it was already much worse than 10yrs before. It was still great diving, and I will come back, but Im not in a rush.

I could have stayed as long as I wanted, but decided I was done. Mostly done with repetitive lackluster food at homestays, rats in my bed, no hot shower for a couple weeks... I can be a dirtbag for months, but I also feel the value of R4 homestay-life is lacking and I decided I had enough. Diving-wise, I could do more. Next time I will stay at a nicer place... I would have this time but they were booked.

I dove with Arborek Dive Center and Tarzan. Both top operators.
My first Blue Magic was nothing short of magic. No other groups were there. I had my own dive guide, and we had amazing manta encounters. My guide got a >3min video of a manta just circling us and playing. That was one of several great encounters on that dive. But we went there again this afternoon and it was PACKED. Way too many divers getting way too close... Scared them all off. I saw one manta.

I did also have a fantastic trip to Manta Sandy. Again we were the only group, and it was swarming with mantas.

I also went to Melissas Garden and was not blown away like I was 10yrs ago. Maybe it was memory, or the sunlight, or the guide not diving the site very well... I think a bit of all that.

I did not get to Misool, so I cant speak to how that has changed.

It's an open ocean. And unfortunatly there are many divers and operators who do not dive the way others would like them to. It sucks that this acitity ruins it for others. But diving is no different than many other things in that respect. Perhaps Thanos will fix it. Until then, I shall continue to dive, and enjoy as much as I can.

 

[Centrals]

Sure there is. Better training for the divers and a means of policing and fining the operators whose customers and staff engage in bad behavior. Today with the prolifferation of Go Pro cameras, documenting abuses should not be too hard.

LOL.
How would you implement your dream?
There is NO scuba police anywhere in this world.