Question Is it normal for a doubles wing to feel like a 'pillow' behind your head when in trim?

[Dirt Pineapple]

I am experimenting with the different holes on my wing and I'm curious, is it suppose to feel like a little 'pillow' in the bottom-back of your head when looking forward and in-trim? I can still reach my valves and hoses of course. If I mount my wing lower, I worry my main corrugated inflator elbow gets too close to the tanks and makes contact while also my redundant inflator is basically touching the side of my steel plate. When stepping off the boat or walking around, I worry this could potentially damage the elbows causing a failure. Are these concerns valid or am I overthinking things?

 

[steinbil]

I have so many questions...

my redundant inflator

- Redundant inflator? Why? Are you diving a twin bladder? In that case, why?

is it suppose to feel like a little 'pillow' in the bottom-back of your head when looking forward and in-trim

I have never felt this, my head bumps into the manifold without feeling the wing, but it makes me wonder if you're neutrally weighted and in trim, and about the geometry of the wing. Underwater, even at the start of the dive, I don't have so much air in the wing that there is a lot of air at the top of the bladder. The air that is in the wing at the start of the dive to compensate for gas weight is mostly sitting on the side "flaps" of the wings that slightly wrap the tanks on my back.

Maybe your wing is shaped differently with a lot of lift behind your head and you're in head-up trim so that the air collects there? Maybe you're overweighted so that the wing is more full than it needs to be?

I think I need to see the wing, and possibly a photo of you with the gear underwater...

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

is it suppose to feel like a little 'pillow' in the bottom-back of your head

I have never experienced this. That in and of itself does not sound like an issue to me especially and really ONLY if you are in proper trim when this occurs.

As to the backup inflator hose--do you have an LP hose connected to it while diving?

 

[inquis]

I've not experienced this. The wing will want to move toward the tanks when in trim (being buoyant, of course). Are your hoses routed such that they are pushing the wing toward your head?

 

[-JD-]

IF you have the wing up that high up relative to the twinset in order to achieve flat trim, it means you are configured so that you are relatively head-heavy.

What is your weight configuration like?

Moving whatever weights that you use lower down to waist-level pockets, a tail weight, weight belt, etc. could help. So could more negative fins or even ankle weights.

Also can you comfortably manipulate the tank and isolator valves if the twinset is moved down one set of holes.

All of that might let you bump the wing down a notch or two and maintain flat trim.



If the wing is only up there for eliminating "coincidence" between the elbow and the tank/plate, that is a pretty protected area with your shoulder and the valve mostly caging it from outside and inflation pressure shouldn't do harm with pushing the elbow into the tank unless it is already "trash."

When you say the redundant inflator is is coming in contact with the plate, I'm assuming you mean the actual inflator assembly at the end of the corrugated hose. I use DiveRite dual bladder wings (yes Jim, - no connected LP hose {usually no LP hose ...}) and because of the length and gometry where it comes from the "front"/person side of the wing, that inflator is usually tucked under the retraction bungees to keep it from flopping around. On my OxyCheq dual-bladder it comes from the rear and over the shoulder like the primary.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

If you are in trim, the highest point of your wing will be roughly in the middle. Any gas with in your wing will flow there and naturally wrap the wing around your cylinders. The only thing you should be hitting with the back of your head is your manifold.

Your wing should be close to empty when you have 30 bar left in your twinset.

(stolen GUE picture)

If it helps, at average height I use the middle holes on my backplate (default) when attaching the twinset and upper holes on the wing.

 

[Dirt Pineapple]

I have so many questions...


- Redundant inflator? Why? Are you diving a twin bladder? In that case, why?


I have never felt this, my head bumps into the manifold without feeling the wing, but it makes me wonder if you're neutrally weighted and in trim, and about the geometry of the wing. Underwater, even at the start of the dive, I don't have so much air in the wing that there is a lot of air at the top of the bladder. The air that is in the wing at the start of the dive to compensate for gas weight is mostly sitting on the side "flaps" of the wings that slightly wrap the tanks on my back.

Maybe your wing is shaped differently with a lot of lift behind your head and you're in head-up trim so that the air collects there? Maybe you're overweighted so that the wing is more full than it needs to be?

I think I need to see the wing, and possibly a photo of you with the gear underwater...

So originally my wing never bumped into me, however I mounted it higher to avoid having the inflator elbows 'crushed' by my tank and plate. Are they sturdier than I am thinking? Should I move back down to this?

Yes, I am using a twin bladder. I dive with a wetsuit in the tropics. I prefer the added redundancy of an inflator. The wing in question is a Dive Rite Rec XT.

 

[Dirt Pineapple]

I have never experienced this. That in and of itself does not sound like an issue to me especially and really ONLY if you are in proper trim when this occurs.

As to the backup inflator hose--do you have an LP hose connected to it while diving?

Hose is not connected, but I have an second inflator hose disconnected (but stowed) in the event I need to inflate the redundant bladder and to inflate DSMBs.

 

[Dirt Pineapple]

IF you have the wing up that high up relative to the twinset in order to achieve flat trim, it means you are configured so that you are relatively head-heavy.

What is your weight configuration like?

Moving whatever weights that you use lower down to waist-level pockets, a tail weight, weight belt, etc. could help. So could more negative fins or even ankle weights.

Also can you comfortably manipulate the tank and isolator valves if the twinset is moved down one set of holes.

All of that might let you bump the wing down a notch or two and maintain flat trim.



If the wing is only up there for eliminating "coincidence" between the elbow and the tank/plate, that is a pretty protected area with your shoulder and the valve mostly caging it from outside and inflation pressure shouldn't do harm with pushing the elbow into the tank unless it is already "trash."

When you say the redundant inflator is is coming in contact with the plate, I'm assuming you mean the actual inflator assembly at the end of the corrugated hose. I use DiveRite dual bladder wings (yes Jim, - no connected LP hose {usually no LP hose ...}) and because of the length and gometry where it comes from the "front"/person side of the wing, that inflator is usually tucked under the retraction bungees to keep it from flopping around. On my OxyCheq dual-bladder it comes from the rear and over the shoulder like the primary.

So it's not that high up to achieve flat trim, it's more so me experimenting with different configurations. This one with the wing high up was because I previously had it mounted lower to the point where the inflator elbows looked like they were getting crushed by the tank and by the plate (redundant inflator elbow).

I use the Dive Rite Rec XT, the front inflator elbow is pretty tight to the steel plate.

 

[Kendall Raine]

My inflator elbow never touches anything. Perhaps the pillow effect is too much gas in the wing. If so solution is proper weighting/correct wing size.