DIR- GUE GUE Compatible BPW

[soothsayer]

Hi everyone, I’m looking at completing fundies sometime soon and want to purchase my first BPW. Since I don’t know where exactly I’d be interested in doing the course, I haven’t contacted any instructors.

I rather not buy a BPW setup that isn’t GUE-compliant and looking for some advice that isn’t halcyon. I found this on dive gear express and was wondering if anyone can provide some insight on these? I was mainly looking at the one with the OMS wing.

Thanks!

Hogarthian

The Hogarthian harness, sometimes called the 'DIR' harness, is a version of the continuous webbing harness with some specific refinements for a minimalist approach to dive gear configuration.

www.divegearexpress.com

 

[Tigerpaw]

Real quick, I see that you're in Austin, we are having a GUE Fundies class in Dallas April 18-21 if you're interested. I'm enrolled and am looking forward to it.

So that being said, the main thing about the BPW is that the webbing is supposed to be continuous and there should be no bungee on the wing. I actually am using a HOG wing attached to a Halcyon BP and harness.

Some things to consider is do you want the backplate to be aluminum, steel or fiber carbon. You will also need to consider weight pockets, keeping in mind that a steel backplate is 6 pounds. It's personal preference, I use an aluminum bp because I travel and because in fresh water I dive with no weights. From glancing over your link, you should be able to use any of those set up's.

OK so all that said, here is a link from the GUE site that has the requirements for GUE equipment:

Standards - Appendix A & B | GUE

www.gue.com

Good luck and have fun. Oh and once you get your set up, practice, practice and practice. Practice in your setup, practice your buoyancy and practice the drills. This will help you be prepared for the class. The one thing I've discovered about the GUE community is that they,.......we will help a diver out regardless of skill level or background, go into it with an open mind.

 

[Jersey1971]

I just went through fundies so I can offer some advice. I started with a steel DGX setup with a 30 lb DGX wing which has served me very well for single tank diving.

When I transitioned to doubles, I moved to a 60lb Halcyon evolve. I found myself a bit overweighted in fresh water wirh twin HP100s so switched to an aluminum BP, which gives me better buoyancy without carrying any weight. I haven’t dove saltwater yet in doubles, but I think I’ll still use my steel BP there. I was also advised that for HP100/LP85, the 40lb wing has better geometry, so I plan to switch to that.

I understand the reluctance to pay Halcyon prices, but I have heard a lot of good things about the geometry of their wings, which is pretty critical for proper trim, whereas the BP and webbing seem pretty generic regardless of brand. So I figured that was the one component I wanted to have identical to my classmates and instructor, so if (when) I flailed with trim, I could at least eliminate equipment as the cause and squarely blame my lack of skill. I bought a used wing for less than the cost of a new one of a less expensive brand. I haven’t done a direct comparison, but I’m very happy with it. The components are modular and Halcyon has great service so even if something wears out or leaks on a used item, it can be easily and economically repaired. And if you don’t like it they have good resale value so you can just resell it for what you paid.

The OMS wing looks pretty similar so is likely good but I’ll let others with actual experience comment. The one thing you can’t use is a bungeed wing. Also make sure you match the weight to your tank size to get a good stable geometry rather than a “taco” geometry with an oversized wing, which is what you supposedly get with a 60lb Evolve and HP100s.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Ask a GUE instructor - they are usually quite helpful and it's a good test to see if they would be a good fit for your Fundies.

You should also decide if you are doing Fundies in a single cylinder setup (Rec pass) or doubles / twinset (Tech pass). If you are going the Tech pass route, you might want to buy a doubles wing directly.

Choose your backplate material depending on where you dive. If cold water in a drysuit, you want steel. If warmer fresh water in a drysuit, aluminium. You will eventually buy both anyway for travel. Most basic no-name backplates will do - I use XDeep but DGX will be fine too.

I would buy branded straps separately as an extra - OMS, Halcyon or anything with a logo, they cost maybe $20. Having a logo on the strap helps immensely with adjustments because you don't need to measure anything, just loosen or tighten by "half H" as an example and it's easy to make sure both straps are the same length.

From your wing selection, Mares has no kidney dump so that's a no. OMS / DGX / DiveRite should work fine.

You don't need Halcyon to pass Fundies or finish Cave 1 / 2, as long as your equipment is not impractical. A lot of instructors use a specific brand not because it's the best but because they got gear for free, have a discount or happen to be a dealer for said brand .

 

[crofrog]

I was mainly looking at the one with the OMS wing.

Mares has no kidney dump so that's a no

The OMS and Mares wing both use the harder plastic feeling corrugated hoses to connect between the lp inflator and the wing. Something I’m not a fan of compared to the traditional rubber hoses.

The mares has a kidney dump and in fact it is switchable something I consider a con

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

The mares has a kidney dump and in fact it is switchable something I consider a con

Couldn't see it in the picture, my bad

 

[soothsayer]

I just went through fundies so I can offer some advice. I started with a steel DGX setup with a 30 lb DGX wing which has served me very well for single tank diving.

When I transitioned to doubles, I moved to a 60lb Halcyon evolve. I found myself a bit overweighted in fresh water wirh twin HP100s so switched to an aluminum BP, which gives me better buoyancy without carrying any weight. I haven’t dove saltwater yet in doubles, but I think I’ll still use my steel BP there. I was also advised that for HP100/LP85, the 40lb wing has better geometry, so I plan to switch to that.

I understand the reluctance to pay Halcyon prices, but I have heard a lot of good things about the geometry of their wings, which is pretty critical for proper trim, whereas the BP and webbing seem pretty generic regardless of brand. So I figured that was the one component I wanted to have identical to my classmates and instructor, so if (when) I flailed with trim, I could at least eliminate equipment as the cause and squarely blame my lack of skill. I bought a used wing for less than the cost of a new one of a less expensive brand. I haven’t done a direct comparison, but I’m very happy with it. The components are modular and Halcyon has great service so even if something wears out or leaks on a used item, it can be easily and economically repaired. And if you don’t like it they have good resale value so you can just resell it for what you paid.

The OMS wing looks pretty similar so is likely good but I’ll let others with actual experience comment. The one thing you can’t use is a bungeed wing. Also make sure you match the weight to your tank size to get a good stable geometry rather than a “taco” geometry with an oversized wing, which is what you supposedly get with a 60lb Evolve and HP100s.

Thanks for the response! You mentioned you bought a less expensive brand wing to match your instructors. May I ask which brand?

EDIT: I read your respond again and it seems you did buy a used halcyon wing. Will look for the same!

 

[clara.chan]

I have to chime in here with my experience. I'm sure you have read up on their requirements (non bungee wing, solid backplate, continuous webbing, 5 d rings, etc). And there are many many brands that manufacture equipment that fits those requirements. But this was my experience with everything:

I'm short at 158cm. I had used a mares backplate for my fundies course. I was uncomfortable and had trim issues. I also had to sort out other equipment issues, like my fins which were the wrong size. I dealt with it and got a rec pass.

The mares backplate only came in one size. I have since upgraded to a halcyon backplate, because they're one of the only manufacturers who made a short backplate in aluminium. The difference in trim was notable.

My instructor also said not to get the xdeep backplate because of the non-standard crotch attachment points on the backplate (it's a Y shape).

Because I needed a specific sized backplate it was important to get the halcyon. If I was a little taller I think I would have used a cheaper DGX backplate with no issues.

Honestly, based on my experience, half of fundies is improving trim. And a lot of trim issues are caused by equipment issues. Since my initial fundies course I have changed my boots, my fins and my backplate! D ring placement have also been changed. And moving my v weights down by two or three inches made a whole world of difference. After all that and a lot of practice, I was able to get my tech pass.

So for you, I'd recommend you to contact an instructor and get their advice before making any purchases. My local dive shop (not my gue instructor) who sold me the boots and fins sold me incorrect sizes and that became a huge issue that was apparent during my fundies course. You can have all the GUE compatible equipment but if they're the wrong fit for you then it's still a waste of money. Contact a GUE instructor!!!

 

[john120283]

Are you planning on taking Fundies in a single tank or doubles?

The DXG backplate and hogarthian harness meet the GUE standards. I personally like the Halcyon webbing because the H's make it easier to adjust the sizing of the back plate when I change exposure protection. Some of the OMS wings would be ok for GUE classes, some would not. If it has bungies, multiple bladders, or multiple OPV values, you likely wouldn't be able to use it in the class.

If you are looking at doubles wings, you'll want to match the size of the wing to the tanks you'll be using. I'd suggest talking to your instructor before buying any gear to get their advice.


I also live in Austin and have taken a few GUE classes (Fundies, DPV, Tech1). There is a growing community here and I'm sure most of us would be happy to try to answer any questions you might have.

 

[the_one_who_waits]

I strongly recommend going with a backplate with smoothed/rounded edges.

DGX erroneously states the edges on their backplates are smooth. This is not the case as the face of the plate meets the sides to form a sharp 90-degree edge. I first got a generic backplate for cheap and found myself rubbing the edge with my arms as I got in and out of my rig. I then ordered a DGX backplate only to find out that it was the same (I don't think they know what edge means).

Like you, I was averse to paying the Halcyon tax at first. While I'm not exactly budget-constrained, I am conscious in getting the most value for everything I purchase. I ended up buying a Halcyon backplate as their edges are truly rounded and smooth. It may seem like a small detail but I rather not take the chance in subjecting my hoses, webbing, and drysuit sleeves to undue wear-and-tear if it can be avoided.

There may be other manufacturers that produce backplates like this but my LDS only had Halycon. And when I picked it up, the quality in machining and finishing was immediately apparent.

The quality of their webbing is also excellent. It is very strong and durable without being too stiff, which makes it very easy to work with when you are rigging everything together (especially when you need to double-thread through places like the waist buckle and crotch strap).

One last plug for Halcyon is their titanium multi-tool (you'll need a cutting device per GUE standards). This tool is a brilliant all-in-one. Both smooth and serated knife edge, indent for line-cutting, two different sized wrench heads for regulator hoses, and three stacked allen keys for regulator plugs etc.

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