Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[ScubaLady1117]

It all depends on the foundation. If one doesn't have a proper foundation, practice ingrains those bad habits that are harder to break later. I'm a poster boy for this.

That's true. Foundation is key, but not everything. Research & consistency assist in strengthening that foundation. Not all of us are fortunate to have good instructors, but it gives newer divers (once like most of us) a blueprint on what NOT to do.

 

[Outbound]

As a matter of fact they do. In the literature it states: "Once you are certified as an Advanced diver, you’ll be able to dive to 100 feet (30 meters)" and "The five dives required to become a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver..."

And yes, They do tiptoe around it using semantics but it's marketing. They market it as advanced training and the boats contribute by requiring it. If it's sampler course then they should call it that.

PADI gets bashed because they have earned the bashing. They are a step away from a multi level marketing company. Certify as many instructors as you can to keep those dues coming in whether they are qualified or not. And I actually will say one good thing about PADI: They are marketing geniuses.

Why does PADI always garner this hate for the way it markets AOW (and Master Scuba Diver), but SSI, for example, does not? Here's what PADI says about its AOW course: "The Advanced Open Water Diver course is all about advancing your skills. You'll practice navigation and buoyancy, try deep diving and make three specialty dives of your choosing (it's like a specialty sampler platter). For every specialty dive you complete, you can earn credit toward PADI® specialty certifications. Here are a few of the many options: Deep, Digital Underwater Photography, Dive Against Debris, Dry Suit, Enriched Air Nitrox, Fish Identification, Night, Peak Performance Buoyancy, Search & Recovery, Underwater Naturalist, Underwater Navigation, and Wreck Diver."

Now take a look at how SSI describes its Advanced Adventurer course, which is essentially the same as PADI's AOW: "If you cannot decide which specialty programs are the best choice for you, join the SSI Advanced Adventurer program! With this program, you can try a variety of specialties before committing to full specialty programs. It is a great way to experience what advanced diver training is all about and how valuable it can be to your diving adventures. During the Advanced Adventurer Program, you will try out 5 different specialties. You will complete one open water training dive per specialty after a comprehensive briefing with your SSI Instructor. With this trial program in specialty diving, you will have total freedom to explore. You can complete the full specialty programs any time in the future and credit your Advanced Adventurer training towards them."

No one bashes SSI for using the term "Advanced" in its program title, but they do that when it comes to PADI. No one bashes SSI for the way it describes its course, but they do for PADI, even when they are the same thing.

Now go take a look at the way SSI describes its Master Scuba Diver rating. Pretty much the same way PADI markets theirs. Yet everyone bashes PADI for their language, but nary a word about SSI.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Why does PADI always garner this hate for the way it markets AOW (and Master Scuba Diver), but SSI, for example, does not? Here's what PADI says about its AOW course: "The Advanced Open Water Diver course is all about advancing your skills. You'll practice navigation and buoyancy, try deep diving and make three specialty dives of your choosing (it's like a specialty sampler platter). For every specialty dive you complete, you can earn credit toward PADI® specialty certifications. Here are a few of the many options: Deep, Digital Underwater Photography, Dive Against Debris, Dry Suit, Enriched Air Nitrox, Fish Identification, Night, Peak Performance Buoyancy, Search & Recovery, Underwater Naturalist, Underwater Navigation, and Wreck Diver."

Now take a look at how SSI describes its Advanced Adventurer course, which is essentially the same as PADI's AOW: "If you cannot decide which specialty programs are the best choice for you, join the SSI Advanced Adventurer program! With this program, you can try a variety of specialties before committing to full specialty programs. It is a great way to experience what advanced diver training is all about and how valuable it can be to your diving adventures. During the Advanced Adventurer Program, you will try out 5 different specialties. You will complete one open water training dive per specialty after a comprehensive briefing with your SSI Instructor. With this trial program in specialty diving, you will have total freedom to explore. You can complete the full specialty programs any time in the future and credit your Advanced Adventurer training towards them."

No one bashes SSI for using the term "Advanced" in its program title, but they do that when it comes to PADI. No one bashes SSI for the way it describes its course, but they do for PADI, even when they are the same thing.

Now go take a look at the way SSI describes its Master Scuba Diver rating. Pretty much the same way PADI markets theirs. Yet everyone bashes PADI for their language, but nary a word about SSI.

I personally have never done any SSI training so can't speak to their training. I just know how I was trained and noticed a distinct pattern of my experience based on discussions with other divers online and in person. But if I had to throw out a guess. For one. Numbers. PADI just certifies so many people it stands to reason they will have more unhappy as well as happy customers. The marketing piece as well. Their name is out there. Even on the show "The White Lotus" when they are talking about diving the guy says "you need to get your PADI". It is synonymous with dive training like Kleenex is synonymous with a tissue.

Lessons learned for me. I know to now carefully vet my instructors as I move more into advanced skills.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Now go take a look at the way SSI describes its Master Scuba Diver rating. Pretty much the same way PADI markets theirs. Yet everyone bashes PADI for their language, but nary a word about SSI.

Don't get me started on the term master. I've worked many years in a field where "Master" is in the title and after 30 years and even holding the title "Master" I am far from a master in the field and can't believe how all of the agencies throw that word around. And there is a "Master Diver" certification but then you can on to earn your "Dive Master' Certification. Huh?? Talk about marketing and semantics. And no, I didn't work for 30 years baiting hooks on a fishing boat

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Why does PADI always garner this hate for the way it markets AOW.....

Maybe PADI was the one who started the sampler program? Others followed due to losing marketshare?

McDonald's isn't a Michelin star restaurant after all, but....

 

[Angelo Farina]

Good feedback. I think the issue with a lot of us is it sold in a way that we perceive it is more than it is. The first being "Advanced Open Water." It is hardly advanced. Quite frankly it should be a part of one's initial training but that would make things cost restrictive to a lot of folks turning them off from even getting started in diving.

Cmas/Bsac OW courses organised by clubs in UK and EU include everything, it is like Padi OW+AOW+Nitrox+Rescue plus other 3 or 4 specialties. We even teach deco procedures...
And the cost of such course is usually less than 100 eur (but you must first become a club member, which can cost other 100 eur).
Instructors are unpaid volunteers.
This is an entirely different world than Padi or other US-based for-profit agencies, shops and paid instructors.
But, as said, I am not in the position of judging those for-profit methods.
As a parent, after training for 10 years our sons with the Cmas methods, we still did find useful to have them certified OW and AOW in Padi courses.
Although you cannot see the benefit, I ensure you that a Padi instructor can provide some useful knowledge, even during the "platter of specialities" of an AOW course.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

.... and paid instructors.
But, as said, I am not in the position of judging those for-profit methods.

As a US-based scuba diving instructor, what is this for-profit thing I keep hearing about?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

But, as said, I am not in the position of judging those for-profit methods

Another thing in America there are no sanctioning bodies or government oversight (not that I'd want the government messing with my diving) other than some generalized standards which don't appear to be enforced or are likely enforceable so none of these certs really don't hold much water other than a boat operator saying you need to have it. PADI actually has themselves positioned to look like the sanctioning body in America to the novice diver. Not sure if that was intentional or not.

 

[tursiops]

Maybe PADI was the one who started the sampler program? Others followed due to losing marketshare?

McDonald's isn't a Michelin star restaurant after all, but....

No, PADI was not the first, nor did they invent the name.. @boulderjohn has written several times about the history.

 

[Angelo Farina]

As a US-based scuba diving instructor, what is this for-profit thing I keep hearing about?

I am not in the position of judging because for 5 years also I and my wife worked as paid instructors in holiday resorts...
I could say that both approaches have merits and drawbacks.