Zip tie question

[DavidG]

I didn't want to hijack Pug's thread (even though it seemed like all the involved parties in this thread are tech's) so I thought I'd ask this in a seperate thread.

1. What's the percieved problem with using Zip ties for items you want to be able to break away from?

2. Barel snaps come with different bail diameters (the bail being the opposite side from the snap). Is there a problem with using one that's I.D. matches a hose. - Example: I have one that's matched to my HP hose. This means that the snap has NO zip tie or cave line. Only problem I could for-see would be possible entanglement. But with the typical HP hose routing plus the clip off point being at either my chest (or my waist) just below my BC inflater it's not presented to many situations which would cause it to become tangled. Plus if it did, it's in front of me and easily un-tangled. Yes, the snap "could" get wedged into something but then so could the SPG.

3. I've seen problems with both cave line and zip ties (used in certain areas of frequent twisting). Do you see a problem rigging those with a "threaded link"? (I'm not sure of the actual name but it's a chain link that is threaded and has a long nut which closes the loop when screwed to one end and opens the link when screwed to the other end.)

 

[jonnythan]

The problem with metal-to-metal connections (or metal-around-hose connections) is that in the event of an entanglement where you need to separate yourself from whatever you're clipped to, you can't cut through metal. Imagine you have a light head attached with a metal attachment to a clip that's on a D-ring, and you get it so entwined in something that you can't free yourself or get the clip off. With a cave line or zip tie attachment you can cut the piece of gear free.. with a quicklink (which is what your threaded links are called) you can't do that.

As for the hose-through-the-eye thing, if your bolt snap siezes and you need to cut the hose free, you can't.. you'd have to cut through the hose which is obviously counterproductive

Zip ties are not as strong as cave line and can be relatively easily broken.. but they can't be broken in one swift pull the way an O-ring can. So, if you want it breakaway in an emergency, a zip tie will be too strong.. but if you don't want it to be breakaway, a zip tie is not strong enough.

(I went in reverse order )

 

[Uncle Pug]

Zipties are strong enough to use as handcuffs... you just need the appropriate size for the job *at hand*.

Jonnythan already pointed out why it isn't a good idea to run the hose through the eye of the boltsnap... additionally that wouldn't fix the bolt snap in a specific position on the hose and it would slide around and up~n~down.

Back to zipties. During my equipment shake down in our proto-fundies class (in the beginning), Andrew G. looked at my zipties and just said hmmm. Andrew and the DIR West folks were using an 0-ring either ziptied or linetied to the long hose second stage as a breakaway. (Now DIR is no breakaways.)

At that time I used one sturdy zip on the hose with a small breakable zip attaching the boltsnap to it. Later I went to two sturdy zipties eliminating the weak link.

Now, I hate to disagree with you Jonny... or with the official DIR position of caveline only... but:
I've been using the same zipties for quite some time now and they have seen their fair share of dives. Additionally ~ to assist in pulling my shoulder straps off to get out of my rig I pull on the long hose which transfers that pull to the right d-ring via those same two zipties. They don't break.

 

[jonnythan]

Pug, I appreciate your position on zip ties.

I use zip ties.

But... last week, before diving, I had to move a bolt snap from one item to another. There were two large-ish zip ties holding a bolt snap to a backup light.

Know how I got the bolt snap off? I grabbed the light and the eye of the snap and twisted. *plink* the bolt snap was off. It's just not as strong as cave line...

 

[OE2X]

I'm inclined to agree with Jon on the strength. The way I tie my cave knot I have 4-6 wraps that share the load which I have to believe has a higher tensil breaking strength than one zip tie.

With that said I would likely ziptie things like my longhose and SPG. These are items that I feel that I can afford to have break off a boltsnap. After seeing what happened to Bob's light I'll be more inclined to use caveline on things like b/u lights, camera, light head.

 

[OE2X]

"A diver without plastic ties is like a rock and roll roadie without duct tape."

This excerpt is offered from The Certified Divers Handbook