Zero to Master Scuba Diver in 10 months

[stuartv]

That's a very good answer. I'm not picking on you, I just think sometimes the term "master" is misused (and not only in scuba). Some things are only truly achieved with education and experience combined. It tends to weed out those who are just good test takers.

I take no umbrage with anything you said here. I have some appreciation for the irony(? ridiculousness?) of dubbing anyone a "master" scuba diver after 50 dives and 5 specialty certs (though, to your point, that does constitute combined education and experience). Similarly for labeling someone "advanced" who only has 9 dives, total. The fact that "Master Scuba Diver" comes before even being the lowest level of instructor or technical certification is just really special, isn't it? LOL It seems like MSD ought to mean Adv Trimix OC + CCR or thereabouts, but anyway....

The industry picked the label, not me. And, regardless of how well the "label" matches the intuitive expectation of the word, completing the requirements for the label was a milestone for me and I'm happy to have accomplished it.

 

[TMHeimer]

I take no umbrage with anything you said here. I have some appreciation for the irony(? ridiculousness?) of dubbing anyone a "master" scuba diver after 50 dives and 5 specialty certs (though, to your point, that does constitute combined education and experience). Similarly for labeling someone "advanced" who only has 9 dives, total. The fact that "Master Scuba Diver" comes before even being the lowest level of instructor or technical certification is just really special, isn't it? LOL It seems like MSD ought to mean Adv Trimix OC + CCR or thereabouts, but anyway....

The industry picked the label, not me. And, regardless of how well the "label" matches the intuitive expectation of the word, completing the requirements for the label was a milestone for me and I'm happy to have accomplished it.

Agree on all counts. But what the heck, you learn stuff and it's something to do. My certificate "suitable for framing" is still on the wall. Plus, they gave me a backpack which comes in handy catching Mardi Gras beads.

 

[boulderjohn]

You have to understand the history of the Master Scuba Diver certification. I will divide it into two parts.

Certification History: First there were two certifications: diver and instructor. Then the AOW was added, then rescue, with these additional certifications having slightly different names and histories among the very few agencies that existed then. Specialties were added, and the idea of creating the master scuba diver certification as an enticement to take arose. At that point, a person who got the master scuba rating had pretty much taken all the courses that existed, including nearly all the specialties possible.

So how good was that diver?

Skill History: This history of NAUI was written in the mid 1990s, largely by AL Tillman, who was a founder of both NAUI and the Los Angeles County instructional program that came before it. That history talks a lot about the 1960 session in Houston that was truly the foundation of NAUI. Experienced scuba instructors from across the country came together to demonstrate instructional techniques and agree upon the foundational skills that needed to be part of instruction. Vveterans of that session said that the average student exiting an OW class at the time of the writing of that history (mid 90s) was a better diver than the average instructor in that 1960 session.

It is very possible that when the Master Scuba Diver certification was created, someone with that certification could indeed be considered at the top of the game.

Things have changed, but the name remains the same.

 

[Dhboner]

Unfortunately my experience with the PADI Master Scuba Diver program (at least as administered by one of our LDS's) is that it is a way to keep the cash register ringing for as long as possible after open water certification. My sons were drawn into the plan with enticements like course and equipment discounts if you sign up for the entire Mater Scuba Diver Program early. So it was less about continuing education as much as continuing paying customer. Education and training are critical to becoming a safe diver but these zero to hero programs are more about commerce. I only know a couple of people I would be comfortable calling "Master Diver" and I know a LOT of divers.

 

[Freewillow]

Sorry but 50 dives and 35 hours underwater does mean very little. But nowadays evrything is possible. I have seen DM and PADI instructors with roughly that amount of diving. Were They "advanced divers"? Very very few were .

 

[Lorenzoid]

Maybe "Master Scuba Diver" should more aptly be "Master Open Water Scuba Diver," just as "Advanced Open Water Scuba Diver" means exactly what it says: someone who has advanced beyond Open Water Scuba Diver. I couldn't care less about the name or the "cert."

What does impress me are the dives of over 100 feet and dives off North Carolina. I had about 200 tropical reef dives (and one or two stupid dives like Belize's Blue Hole) under my belt before tackling anything more challenging. At that point I took the PADI Deep course in North Carolina, and I found it to be an eye opener. I would say a diver with 10 dives in those kinds of conditions using the appropriate gear and having a little extra training beyond what's typical of OW/AOW has gotten much more useful experience than a diver with several times that many dives in tropical reef conditions wearing boardshorts and thinking more about the evening's margaritas than the dive. You can't measure experience by pure "number of dives."

 

[stuartv]

My sons were drawn into the plan with enticements like course and equipment discounts if you sign up for the entire Mater Scuba Diver Program early. So it was less about continuing education as much as continuing paying customer. Education and training are critical to becoming a safe diver but these zero to hero programs are more about commerce.

You make it sound like offering a complete package for MSD for a discount is automatically a bad thing.

I wanted the training I got. I would have chosen to take the various specialties that I did regardless of getting one extra C card (that says MSD) at the end. If I had been offered all the courses as a package, for a discount, that seems like it would have been a good thing for me. And every shop has to sell stuff to stay in business, so if I had bought it, a win for them, too. Although I guess it was maybe a bigger win for them that I took the courses without getting a package deal.

Also, if a package deal provides a person a little extra incentive to get some additional training that they might otherwise not ante up for also seems like a good thing. This seems like it goes along with the idea some people here on SB have talked about of having a higher retention rate in the sport for people who buy their own gear.

Anyway, if a shop delivers poor training, then that's bad, whether they offer a package deal or not.

But, if they give good training, then offering a package deal for a discount just seems like a win-win.

And having the shop stay in business is another win, for all the local divers.

---------- Post added October 14th, 2015 at 03:39 PM ----------

Maybe "Master Scuba Diver" should more aptly be "Master Open Water Scuba Diver," just as "Advanced Open Water Scuba Diver" means exactly what it says: someone who has advanced beyond Open Water Scuba Diver. I couldn't care less about the name or the "cert."

In the end, it seems to me that, for the people who don't know what MSD really means, the distinction doesn't really matter. Those people aren't going to really appreciate the difference between an SDI or PADI MSD and someone who is truly a master of scuba diving. And, for the people who do understand what MSD really means, well, again, it doesn't really matter - because they know what it means (and doesn't mean).

I think the only reason it's such a topic of discussion is because of the really experienced and highly skilled people who are rankled when novices like me get a title of "Master Scuba Diver". It's like a total affront to some of these highly experienced divers that any non-diver might somehow get the (mistaken) impression that a diver like me is even in the same league with them. Some even to the point of feeling compelled to make snarky and sarcastic comments belittling me, personally, because I am happy to achieve this milestone (baby step that I know it is).

 

[OldNSalty]

Where is Thal to tell us that the only real recreational Master Divers are NAUI?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I think the only reason it's such a topic of discussion is because of the really experienced and highly skilled people who are rankled when novices like me get a title of "Master Scuba Diver". It's like a total affront to some of these highly experienced divers that any non-diver might somehow get the (mistaken) impression that a diver like me is even in the same league with them. Some even to the point of feeling compelled to make snarky and sarcastic comments belittling me, personally, because I am happy to achieve this milestone (baby step that I know it is).

Well said. If it were me, I would decline the card. I know it's the industry that picked the name, not you, but I find the name objectionable and, as you put it, an affront to the people who might actually be described by something along the lines of "master" diver. I am not "in the same league" as those divers you refer to above--people with a thousand dives to places relatively few people go--and I would be a bit embarrassed to have the word "master" diver in any way associated with me. Again, this is a personal thing, and whether others choose to accept this card does not bother me in the least. I'm sure I could look through my boxes of junk and find some award equally as, uh, suitable for framing. Again, kudos on the training and experience--I mean that in all sincerity. The card is another matter.

 

[Steve_C]

A Master's of mathematics, or any number of other areas, does not mean that you have mastered the area. It means you have progressed beyond a BA/BS and nothing more. A PhD or any other doctorate does not mean complete mastery either but should mean more mastery than a MA/MS.

Master Scuba Diver is exactly the same. It means they have done some more than the first level of OW and done some courses. Doesn't mean they are instructor level.

People do not complain about the term Masters in degree programs. Why all the energy expended here?