leadweight
Contributor
the inherent bouyancy of a Ranger is around 3 pounds.
Zeagle Ranger -vs- BP/Wings
- Thread starter pyrite
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Then back in '98 everything changed. I got a BP and wing. All of a sudden I realized that as I "stepped up" with the trend in recreational gear from the early 70s until the late 90s, something had happened: Dive manufacturing marketing departments no longer gave a hoot about actually diving anymore. Color was your most important equipment consideration.
Oh, the stuff wasn't dangerous by any means, but it no longer worked as well as the early streamlined gear that I started in.
Don't get me wrong, there were problems with the early gear as well, but I suddenly realized that as I had gotten away from my old Dacor BP I had started pushing a bulky, padded "poodle jacket" through the water, and had been doing so for years.
Enter the modern BP and wing combination. It solves the problems of the "early gear" but maintains the streamlining and trim that the early gear had.
I dive a BP from Cozumel to Cave to Ice. It gives a single interface with my equipment, doubles or singles. Nothing changes. This makes me a much safer diver because I'm not constantly shifting gears from one set of equipment to another.
Properly adjusted (note the conditional) they're completely comfortable; From a skin in Cozumel to the double insulation I wear under a drysuit when ice diving. Most of the BP naysayers don't know how to correctly adjust them. I'm sure they're a couple body shapes where they might not be comfortable, but very, very few and most certainly less than the small number of folks who say that they're uncomfortable.
The major problem with a BP is that it certainly *looks* uncomfortable in the store. If you're shallow enough to base a life support equipment purchase on how something looks, plenty of manufacturers have hot pink BCs for you to purchase. For those willing to look beyond the aesthetics and make a rational, informed decision based on performance you'll be amazed at the improvement that a BP and wing brings to your diving.
If there's no shop in the local area that carries the Halcyon line, you can buy the equipment from Extreme Exposure (http://www.extreme-exposure.com/) and if you're not satisfied, you can return it within 30 days for a complete refund, sans shipping.
A previous discussion where you'll find an interesting data point can be found here: http://www.scubaboard.com/t7209/s.html
Lastly, if Zeagle actually made gear that worked well in the technical space maybe they'd wouldn't have to resort to pictures of camo-covered supposed Navy Seals coming out of the water toting XM-177s.
As for BPs being "technical" gear, there's no such thing. There's BETTER gear, that so-called "technical" divers use because they dive in less forgiving environments, and then there's recreational gear. Remember, BCs and SPGs used to be "technical" cave gear!
The reason the BP folks are so strident is that almost all fall into the same category: "I wasted my money on a standard BC/Zeagle/Whatever, and then had to go out and buy a BP and eBay the BC." Our ultimate concern is to get divers into a superior system as cheaply as possible. Going through a Zeagle first is the most common, and expensive route.
eBay is littered with equipment of people that have done just that.
Roak
Oh, the stuff wasn't dangerous by any means, but it no longer worked as well as the early streamlined gear that I started in.
Don't get me wrong, there were problems with the early gear as well, but I suddenly realized that as I had gotten away from my old Dacor BP I had started pushing a bulky, padded "poodle jacket" through the water, and had been doing so for years.
Enter the modern BP and wing combination. It solves the problems of the "early gear" but maintains the streamlining and trim that the early gear had.
I dive a BP from Cozumel to Cave to Ice. It gives a single interface with my equipment, doubles or singles. Nothing changes. This makes me a much safer diver because I'm not constantly shifting gears from one set of equipment to another.
Properly adjusted (note the conditional) they're completely comfortable; From a skin in Cozumel to the double insulation I wear under a drysuit when ice diving. Most of the BP naysayers don't know how to correctly adjust them. I'm sure they're a couple body shapes where they might not be comfortable, but very, very few and most certainly less than the small number of folks who say that they're uncomfortable.
The major problem with a BP is that it certainly *looks* uncomfortable in the store. If you're shallow enough to base a life support equipment purchase on how something looks, plenty of manufacturers have hot pink BCs for you to purchase. For those willing to look beyond the aesthetics and make a rational, informed decision based on performance you'll be amazed at the improvement that a BP and wing brings to your diving.
If there's no shop in the local area that carries the Halcyon line, you can buy the equipment from Extreme Exposure (http://www.extreme-exposure.com/) and if you're not satisfied, you can return it within 30 days for a complete refund, sans shipping.
A previous discussion where you'll find an interesting data point can be found here: http://www.scubaboard.com/t7209/s.html
Lastly, if Zeagle actually made gear that worked well in the technical space maybe they'd wouldn't have to resort to pictures of camo-covered supposed Navy Seals coming out of the water toting XM-177s.
As for BPs being "technical" gear, there's no such thing. There's BETTER gear, that so-called "technical" divers use because they dive in less forgiving environments, and then there's recreational gear. Remember, BCs and SPGs used to be "technical" cave gear!
The reason the BP folks are so strident is that almost all fall into the same category: "I wasted my money on a standard BC/Zeagle/Whatever, and then had to go out and buy a BP and eBay the BC." Our ultimate concern is to get divers into a superior system as cheaply as possible. Going through a Zeagle first is the most common, and expensive route.
eBay is littered with equipment of people that have done just that.
Roak
And a SS BP and wing is about -6. That's nine pounds off your belt right then and there, and the weight is right where it's supposed to be unlike the Zeagle, where the buoyancy is right where it shouldn't be.
Roak
In theory, you would think that to be true, but I find the BP/Plate more comfortable, if for no other reason the difference of having 12 pounds of lead on my waste as opposed to 19 pounds in my BC pockets.
I dropped about six pounds of lead moving from a Zeagle to a BP/Wing.
leadweight
Contributor
Just noticed that picture of ya, not bad. I kind of think that we do tend to get a bit strident at times on the internet. After all, in cyberspace the screams dont break your eardrums. My personal opinion is that going through a progression of gear may not be a complete waste of money. It is, after all, experience. The important thing is to be comfortable with one's own gear. As far as these internet debates go, some of us get a bit out of whack, myself incluced. Besides that involves someone else's gear. Their application and inclination may be different from one's own. For example, I noticed that you are a cave diver. That is a bit over my head, bad pun not intended.
That said, I am not all that wild about the so-called extended range bc's like the Ranger, Raider, Rig, Outback, Recon etc. as they weigh too much and take up too much space in the old suitcase; not to mention tank wrap and other evils. Even though my short life with a BP did not go so well, I would have to say that generally the BP path is better than the extended-range thingie, and that is a bunch comming from a diver who does not use either.
That said, I am not all that wild about the so-called extended range bc's like the Ranger, Raider, Rig, Outback, Recon etc. as they weigh too much and take up too much space in the old suitcase; not to mention tank wrap and other evils. Even though my short life with a BP did not go so well, I would have to say that generally the BP path is better than the extended-range thingie, and that is a bunch comming from a diver who does not use either.
Never did any investigation on the rig, but I'm not surprised that its at least that..
I DO feel more comfortable in the BP&W. Your right on about the weight. Less is always better as long as it meets your buoyancy needs.
I dive a farmer john 7mm in upper 50° waters and it need some weight to get it and me under. I also considering on of the heavy STAs as well. Gotta love the versatility of the BP&W.
diveaustin
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Hey...I dont have the cash to buy either brand new. My family keeps growing. Seems like scuba diving isn't my only hobby. Any of you ex-Ranger BP converts want to sell a semi-used Ranger? Better yet...send it to me and let me try it. I can afford shipping.
If so, PM me and lets talk.
Thanks
If so, PM me and lets talk.
Thanks
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