Your thoughts about a UW HD Video Rig!

[ronscuba]

"I can only assume between the new Sony and new Canon, the technology difference has to make the video quality a little better."

You would think so, but history has shown it's not always true.

I'd wait for the reviews to come out. Camcorderinfo.com does a great job and they seem to tell it like it is. I personally don't care about the still picture capabilities of my camcorder. I have a still camera for that.

I'd skip the wide angle lens and lights for now, just go with the filter which should come with the housing. Work on your uw video skills and then get the lights and W/A lens after 30 dives with the new rig.

All right, I've done enough blabbing. This is just my opinion, let's hear from some of the other video peeps out there.

 

[robint]

dude........ baby steps! You are going from a tiny little P&S camera to HD camcorder, I would recommend just that to begin with.

As far as the WA lens, I don't think you need that right now. As Ronscuba said, lots of mixed reviews on HD and wide angle results. Lights - depends on what you are shooting. The Ikelite housings comes with a red filter which helps with color, as does the editing process. That is all I used for the first 3 yrs shooting underwater video with a SD camcorder. Lights are great for night dives or upclose shots <4' away from subject only.

robin

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

Be careful with the wide angle lens options. Many UW wide angle lens on HD camcorders have been reported as disappointing unless you spend big bucks. I think there is a report on the new Ikelite HD W/A lens over on Wetpixel. Don't remember if it was positive or negative.

The Canon HG series has been getting great reviews just like the HF line. Guess it's just whether you prefer flash or hard drive.

I have a couple of Canon camcorders. They don't feel as solid as Sony's. I haven't had any problems, but I tend to baby my electronics gear.

Ron, your not using a wide angle in your HD videos? It seems that half of the video guys are still out on the wide angle lens. Wasen't to sure if it was really needed or not. I can at least wait a while on that then, if you think its not needed.

dude........ baby steps! You are going from a tiny little P&S camera to HD camcorder, I would recommend just that to begin with.

As far as the WA lens, I don't think you need that right now. As Ronscuba said, lots of mixed reviews on HD and wide angle results. Lights - depends on what you are shooting. The Ikelite housings comes with a red filter which helps with color, as does the editing process. That is all I used for the first 3 yrs shooting underwater video with a SD camcorder. Lights are great for night dives or upclose shots <4' away from subject only.

robin

Yeah, I know I always get eager. But if I could tell you how many times I have bought something, only to replace it with something more expensive, not much later. Like, I probably should have even waited to by the DC 800, and went straight to video. So what I like to do now, is do my research, for weeks, then after extensive thought, I buy. I always get myself in trouble like this. lol.

I think I want to wait till the new Canon and Sony come out and see how the reviews are. The Canon definately seems like the more economic route, and the video review from CNET said it was very user friendly. So we will have to see.

 

[ronscuba]

All my Belize video was shot with a flat port. All my Roatan video was flat port and dome port. In Indonesia also flat and dome, but I did experiment with an internal wide angle lens under the dome. Results were OK, not great. There is a little vignetting and softness in the corners.

You can see some of the vignette in the below video. The softness doesn't look too bad on the internet, but it's noticeable at full rez on a big HDTV.

[vimeo]931226[/vimeo]

 

[geokr]

What about the Sony SR series? Do they have any advantage over the Canon?

Like you, Ed, I just took the plunge on my first u/w video rig and went with the Sony SR12. There were a hundred variables to juggle and after a lot of analysis I finally selected the Sony over the Canon for two reasons. The SR12 chip has 5.66 megapixels v. the Canon's 3.3 - seems that that might add up to better picture quality so I took the bait on that. Second was the hard drive with 120 gig storage plus 8 on the memory stick v. 32. I will be shooting FH HD on both land and sea and the extra capacity might come in handy - don't know till I try it in Coz for a week. I look at it this way - at some point you just have to commit to getting what you think will work out best for you and get some experience with it that will help you better judge the next time. You'll never get it 100% perfect the first time unless you have a budget like NASA. And, you may change your mind about some things along the way. I chose the Equinox housing and having fooled with it a bit wish I has gone with Ikelite. The controls are sloppy, difficult and uncertain to use compared with the Ikelite still camera housing I had previously and I think that may prove problematic when I start shooting underwater. I also had to get an off-camera monitor on the backplate rather than use the camera's monitor and it only shows the video, not the superimposed camera info like "REC", remaining battery, etc., so that added to the total cost. BTW - I've seen some of the videos that some of the other responders to your questions have taken and posted - pretty good stuff! It ain't just the camera!

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

All my Belize video was shot with a flat port. All my Roatan video was flat port and dome port. In Indonesia also flat and dome, but I did experiment with an internal wide angle lens under the dome. Results were OK, not great. There is a little vignetting and softness in the corners.

You can see some of the vignette in the below video. The softness doesn't look too bad on the internet, but it's noticeable at full rez on a big HDTV.

Every time I see your videos, I am just amazed. Its like I just fell off a boat and right into the reef ! :shocked2:

I noticed the vignetting you were speaking of. If you zoom out slightly does that go away? I know with still photography you zoom out slightly and that goes away.

And, What are your thoughts about the recording media? I know there are still a lot of video guru's who still love there tape, which I was always under the impression it was easier for editing. The hard drives, kinda scare me, that whol locking the drive if it gets banged, like a lap top, and what are the thought on the SD cards? Memory cards and sticks would seem more convienent for diving. If you do a dive, come up for your interval, change out the card and your good to go.

But I have decided to just stick with the camera and a housing. I have a light already. And as I gain experience, I will look into the ports and lens's. Just out of curiosity, What editing software do you use for HD content?

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

I also had to get an off-camera monitor on the backplate rather than use the camera's monitor and it only shows the video, not the superimposed camera info like "REC", remaining battery, etc., so that added to the total cost. BTW - I've seen some of the videos that some of the other responders to your questions have taken and posted - pretty good stuff! It ain't just the camera!

Yeah thats the only thing I didn't like about the Ikelite. With the Canon housing, you fold out the screen and have to view it on a angle. The Sony housing has the mirror, and with the reverse stuff Sony has makes your picture the right way. Problem with that the mirror is exterior and were swimming in salt water. I love the larger monitor stuff like gates, top dawg II and Light and motion have.

Here is the Canon: Notice the angle of the screen?

Now here is the Sony: Notice the Mirror?

And I am not to sure if you can add some type of monitor to the Ikelite cases.

 

[diversteve]

Yeah thats the only thing I didn't like about the Ikelite. With the Canon housing, you fold out the screen and have to view it on a angle. The Sony housing has the mirror, and with the reverse stuff Sony has makes your picture the right way. Problem with that the mirror is exterior and were swimming in salt water. I love the larger monitor stuff like gates, top dawg II and Light and motion have.

Other problem with the mirror is that the reversing circuitry also reverses the on-screen LCD controls - at least in one case - I don't remember which specific Sony HD model it was. Which makes them hard to use to adjust MWB etc. The post I saw, the user would switch back to normal to adjust it and then back to reverse for panning. Or something like that. It was likely an earlier post here if you wanted the specifics.

And I am not to sure if you can add some type of monitor to the Ikelite cases.

No, unless you're fairly handy and can install/fabricate your own gland for the cable. Plus unless you want to build your own monitor housing, all of the external HD models that I've seen cost 3X what the Ikelite housing does. I suppose if you could do the gland, an option might be the Ocean Images external - if they still sell it? But afaik, it's only SD so useless for macro focusing. At that point, you might as well buy the O/I housing instead.

 

[diversteve]

Every time I see your videos, I am just amazed. Its like I just fell off a boat and right into the reef ! :shocked2:

3CCD and a good port will do that. Although in Ron's case it's definitively also the talent behind the camera.

And, What are your thoughts about the recording media? I know there are still a lot of video guru's who still love there tape, which I was always under the impression it was easier for editing. The hard drives, kinda scare me, that whol locking the drive if it gets banged, like a lap top, and what are the thought on the SD cards? Memory cards and sticks would seem more convienent for diving. If you do a dive, come up for your interval, change out the card and your good to go.

Both have pluses/minuses. Tape is a 1 to 1 capture so the initial import can take longer. Solid State media shows up as a drive on your computer so that would seem to be more convenient for transfer. My only recent experience with a HDD camera was a lot quicker also, I was able to transfer about 3 hrs. of footage in under 1/2 hr.

HDV(tape) has lower capture hardware requirements so some (including me) find it easier to use. AVCHD capture has a much higher hardware minimum requirement. Of course with both formats you can capture in SD also.

Most of the editing programs websites list the minimum h/w requirements for capture/edit. Having recently done AVCHD capture from a Canon HG10, I was surprised at how much processing power was needed. The computer used was just over the minimum suggested so it worked but should have been a lot faster.

I shoot tape, but my next camera will be HDD. Because I'm a big fan of not having open my housing as often. With an extended battery that may mean a couple of days of shooting before I do.

And it will be a Sony camera as I have a $2500 investment in my housing (Amphibico EVO) that I'm not willing to discard.

Sony also doesn't use SD cards, but rather their proprietary - and more expensive - Memory Stick Pro Duo media. So that's a consideration until those prices drop further.

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

3CCD and a good port will do that. Although in Ron's case it's definitively also the talent behind the camera.

Both have pluses/minuses. Tape is a 1 to 1 capture so the initial import can take longer. Solid State media shows up as a drive on your computer so that would seem to be more convenient for transfer. My only recent experience with a HDD camera was a lot quicker also, I was able to transfer about 3 hrs. of footage in under 1/2 hr.

HDV(tape) has lower capture hardware requirements so some (including me) find it easier to use. AVCHD capture has a much higher hardware minimum requirement. Of course with both formats you can capture in SD also.

Most of the editing programs websites list the minimum h/w requirements for capture/edit. Having recently done AVCHD capture from a Canon HG10, I was surprised at how much processing power was needed. The computer used was just over the minimum suggested so it worked but should have been a lot faster.

I shoot tape, but my next camera will be HDD. Because I'm a big fan of not having open my housing as often. With an extended battery that may mean a couple of days of shooting before I do.

And it will be a Sony camera as I have a $2500 investment in my housing (Amphibico EVO) that I'm not willing to discard.

So being somewhat of a new video guy, it sounds like I might be better off with HDD? Now does the media type effect the out come of what you edit, or the quality of what you edit? You would think if for some crazy reason something happen to your camera you could easily recover your footage if it was on the SD cards. See its hard to judge the proper media, as the only experience I have with video is my Panasonic GD-80 which is mini-dv. So I will wait for all the HD guru's to teach me.

And Thanks for the Amphibico. I like that Buddy EVO case. I like the controls at the handle and I also like the rear monitor. And it's priced very reasonable, in comparison to the Light n Motion. Well I have a little while to wait, the Sony XR-500 doesn't get released till March 8th and the Canon S10 is looking at mid April. And I am sure it will take a week or two before someone reviews them. But it does seem like the case manufacturers really push Sony. And unless the XR-500 and the S10 are living up to the hype, then I will decide between the HF-11 and the SR12.

Again Thank You to all for giving your input. It is very helpful and appreciated. So keep it coming, I would like to hear more.

Ed