You have GOT TO BE KIDDING!- New Aqualung BC

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Even looking at the graphical demonstration on the website it seems clear that aqualung thinks that an inflator button should be used like an elevator button.

Earlier someone said that the valves weren't pneumatically oporated but doesn't the lever actuate the other dump valves as well? How doess it acuate them?

Looking at the picture, I wonder is how easy is it to get the inflator hose on and off with heavy gloves on? It doesn't happen often but inflator valves can stick and you need to be able to get that hose off fast and dump simultaniously. It looks like the lever might be int he way and having the weight pockets full might make it harder also.

I can't tell from the picture how the oral inflator deploys but that would be important too. All in all, just looking at it, it looks awkward. I don't know why anyone would want their inflator down there.

Does it use a standard inflator hose or is this some proprietary thing?
 
MikeFerrara:
Even looking at the graphical demonstration on the website it seems clear that aqualung thinks that an inflator button should be used like an elevator button.

Earlier someone said that the valves weren't pneumatically oporated but doesn't the lever actuate the other dump valves as well? How doess it acuate them?

.






Wires? The advertising does seem misleading since it can't work as advertised i.e. down for down and up for up.
 
howarde:
Here's the OP.

I haven't found the words "pulling a lever up and down to surface or dive deeper" on the website...

I have only seen the words ascend or descend.

I also dive a BP/W - but I certainly don't think this things is an entnglement hazzard. I don't think it's endorsing unsafe diving practices. It probably is a poor choice of words in the advertising of the product, but otherwise that's it.

I seriously doubt anyone would ever consider diving in a cave with this thing either, or ask, "can I mount my doubles to my i3"

Based on the OP... their inflamatory comments are also another pure over reaction by someone for whom the product is obviously not intended for.

It's a product that claims "diving is fun" :11:

Howard,

Read the last sentence of the first paragraph for the text I extracted.

As for the intended audience, its clear that it is intended for Sport divers...not cave divers. Entanglement in kelp is a real concern in Southern California (where AL is based incidentally). Most of the time its a simple maneuver to simply back up a little bit to release the tension remove the kelp.

Craig

All,
What I find most interesting about this thread is how the subject has often got off track and rather dealing with WHAT I said, most of the rhetoric is directed towards HOW I said it. I have been accused of overreacting, calling people stupid, and ridiculing people at AL.

Very few comments have been directed towards my two concerns. What is the agenda here?

Does anyone disagree that it is inaccurate and potentially unsafe to suggest that using ANY LP inflator to surface????

Does anyone who has ever dived in the kelp forests disagree that the lever could be entangled in kelp and that the lever would likely operate in some direction as the diver moved through it such that air would be added or released from the BCD?


I think that the thread would be more valuable if the merits of the equipment were discussed. However, it seems like there is a different agenda in operation.

If anyone wants to discuss the merits of my two points, I am all ears. If you want to tell me how to write my posts, then I suggest we split the thread into two with the latter thread being 'how to write a post that pleases everyone.' I'll be happy to read that in my free time.

Cheers
 
Otter:
As for the intended audience, its clear that it is intended for Sport divers...not cave divers.

Others mentioned cave diving... Not you... didn't mean to lump you in to that statement. :D

But having dived in So Cal... I doubt that that little tab would be a major entanglement issue.

I would imagine that while it is possible for the little tab to be an entanglement point, so is a hose, or a tank valve, or anything else on your body.


- I think everyone agrees that the LP inflator hose and adding air to your BCD is not the way to ascend, but I seriously doubt that that is what they're trying to say.
 
This is from the website...

CONVENIENT
Unlike a traditional inflator at the end of a floppy hose, the i3 never moves. It is stationary at the same location where your left hand normally rests. It is always in the right place at the right time.

RELIABLE
The i3 does not utilize pneumatics or hydraulics to activate the Flat E-Valves. Therefore, there is no possibility of failure due to leaks. Using push-rod technology, as found in aircraft, the design remains simple and robust.

The oral inflator is easy to deploy and use. It can easily be removed to provide a access port should you ever need to rinse the inside of your BC
 
I'll be totally honest here--this is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen yet.
 
Dear Otter,

First of all, if you have been reading this thread, you will see that your concerns have been addressed many times. It was all directed at what you said.

The tile itself infers that this must be some kind of joke or it can't be true. What else could you mean by "You have GOT TO BE KIDDING!"?

I have posted my reasons for disagreeing with you how many times now? Example, post #72...
To clarify, I'm not endorsing this BC but I think before criticizing any product, a person should at least see it and base their criticisms on fact. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Post #36...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitlip
It is the elevator concept which really bothers me. What means up? Also the remote deflation, no matter how robust they say it is.


Hmmm. Not so hard to understand. Up is pulling the lever up toward your head or put another way, if you are standing on the floor, pull up to go up. Down toward your feet or if you are standing on the floor, down toward the floor. This does not change, even if you are upside down.

Remote deflation? Similar to using a string to dump air as most BCs use today. Is the rod technology as good as the string technology? I don't know.

Until people have tried this thing how do you know how well it works? I see the negative tone of the OP and everyone jumps on the bandwagon...
__________________
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." Henry Ford

"Even death is not to be feared by those who lived wisely." Buddha

http://www.divephotofest.com/
Post #37...
Have you tried one of these BCs? Have you even seen one in person? Or can you just tell from the pictures this is a huge blunder by AquaLung?
__________________
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." Henry Ford

"Even death is not to be feared by those who lived wisely." Buddha

http://www.divephotofest.com/
Post #42...
Quote:
As my original post indicated. The COPY of the ad "... simply and intuitively control their ascent and descent by pulling a lever up and down to surface or dive deeper." speaks to adding air to ascend which is not the way to properly ascend. A proper ascent is done by swimming up while dumping air as it expands. Adding air to 'surface' is a recipe for a runaway ascent.
Otter, do you really think divers are not bright enough to understand ascents and NOT adding air to go up? I could understand someone who has not been diving reading the ads and believing that but get real. If you have taught your students properly they will understand.

Quote:
My second point was specifically about the entanglement hazard afforded by a lever.
Have you seen this BC? The knife on the side would be just as much of an entanglement hazard, would it not? In fact it looks even more exposed than the lever.

Quote:
Others may have their own opinion about other features and as for jumping on the bandwagon, your post on the recall of a "H" inflator certainly appeared to be consistent with that characterization.
Quite the opposite in fact. My point was that if there was a problem and it did not work, as I said, they would have to recall it like Halcyon did. How is this jumping on the bandwagon? Don't you think Aqualung saw that Halcyon had to recall those inflators? Do you think they did not learn from that mistake that cost Halcyon a lot of money? Do you think they would put out a product that had not been tested to the point they were satisfied the same thing would not happen to them?

Quote:
As for having tried one, no I have not...and will not. Speaking as an Instructor diving in the waters of Southern California where kelp is 'abundant', I wouldn't take the risk nor ask my students to....and I certainly would reemphasize that adding air to a BCD is for establishing positive buoyancy on the surface and neutral buoyancy underwater. As we say "no elevator rides to the surface".
"I have not...and will not"? Are you that closed minded? So basically you are saying anything that may be hanging off of a BC, like a reel, is an entanglement hazard? How about a snorkel or a console? What about the knife? You think using this product id so risky that you would not try it?
"No elevator rides to the surface" applies to regular hose inflators as well. Again, a diver should be smart enough to get by the up/down wording to understand what the company means.
Quote:
To be 100% clear, my views on this are strictly my own and do not represent those of ScubaBoard. YMMV.
You know, I would not have brought this up unless you had first but I see you read the report I made on your post. I did this in private but you had to bring it out onto the board. Frankly, with all that has been going on lately, I would think that there would be an air of caution among the Moderators here regarding posts. "Bashing" has been a popular word here on SB the last week or two. Your post, bashing this BC without trying it or even seeing it for yourself is irresponsible in my opinion. Moderators are perceived to speak for the board. You said nothing about his post being your own opinion until I brought it up. As I said in my report, if I was a new diver coming here to find out about BCs and saw that a Moderator here was bashing it, I would listen. I have been reading that Moderators are supposed to do just that, moderate, not ridicule something without concrete facts. You failed to take off the Mod hat in your first post and would not have if I had not reported your post. You can't have it both ways...
__________________
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." Henry Ford

"Even death is not to be feared by those who lived wisely." Buddha

http://www.divephotofest.com/

I guess my agenda is finding out the truth here based on facts not just speculation. As far as being accused of being closed minded and ridiculing AL, I will discuss that in my next post, with examples of course.
 
Post #63...Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dennis
Otter,

Hmmm. You are saying it is a bad design because it is an entanglement hazard and asking if anyone with dive experience read the copy. You also implied that no one with dive experience thought about the implications of making it dangerous. You portray it as a dangerous product or at least a product with a dangerous inflator control. Like I said, if you were a new diver looking for info on BCs and read your post, would you buy it? Or maybe that was an endorsement...

Yeah, I do...

What you have here is lot different than accusing me of being closed-minded, ridiculing Aqualung personnel, or calling them stupid.

And no, I wouldn't want a new diver looking for a BC to buy this BCD -- for the reasons I mentioned and those mentioned by others.
__________________
Otters are the Guardian of the Kelp Forest - The Blue Planet
Action is what separates a belief from an opinion. -- Eboo Patel
http://www.oberlin.us
http://www.joeliburdi.com

Post #64...What were you implying when you said those things? Were you calling them brilliant? Closed minded means making your mind up before seeing the product. Have you? I see you are not recommending it so you have said that buying it is a mistake and anyone who would buy it... what? What adjective would you use?
__________________

Now post # 64 was never answered. I was trying to understand what you are saying there but you chose not to answer. But you did agree that you were calling this a dangerous product.
 
Good points Dennis.
 
Does anyone disagree that it is inaccurate and potentially unsafe to suggest that using ANY LP inflator to surface????

Again, we have been discussing the wording used on the website and I agreed it could be, or should be worded better. There is no specific reference to surfacing, just to go up and down. The Flash diver they have to demonstrate what they mean, only goes up and down in relation to the bottom, you can't make him surface.

In fact, your direct quote in your original post...
A direct quote :"The innovative i3 allows divers to simply and intuitively control their ascent and descent by pulling a lever up and down to surface or dive deeper."
says nothing about which way to pull the lever to go up or down, just that it is used to surface or dive deeper. Could it be confusing? Yes. Does it make a definitive statement? No.
 

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