You GOTTA have insurance

[boulderjohn]

The difference is those are community services, YOUR healthcare is your responsibility, not a community service.

They are only community services because at some time in the past the community decided to make them community services. Until the community decided to make them community services, they were all considered individual responsibility. There is nothing inherently different about health care. If the community decides to make it a community service, then it is a community service, as it is throughout pretty much the entire civilized world, with the exception of one major country.

 

[Gareth J]

The difference is those are community services, YOUR healthcare is your responsibility, not a community service.

I thing that is the fundamental difference between a lot of Americans, and a large part of the rest of the world.

The rest of us see health as a service, that is as important for society as firefighting, sewage service, defence etc.

Preventative Health is hugely important if you want to improve the health and life expectancy of your population. It also gives you a lot of 'bang for your buck', what is a relatively modest outlay (especially in the early years for children), produces significant benefits in term's of long term health and life expectancy, and reduces other health costs for over an individuals life. In much the same way that immunisation programs are hugely beneficial for society as a whole.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The difference is those are community services, YOUR healthcare is your responsibility, not a community service.

I believe that is the point. Maybe we Americans can get our heads around thinking of healthcare as a community service, as they do in some countries. Boulderjohn’s fascinating post explained that long ago we experimented with private fire protection, and it probably wasn’t a good idea. Your house or business catches on fire, and it could spread to others’ homes or businesses. Maybe healthcare, like fire, police, etc., ought to be a shared responsibility, because providing benefits to others may in turn benefit you.

(others posted while I was typing)

 

[Ghost95]

If we make Healthcare a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking illegal as a condition of that Healthcare? We have fire codes regulating buildings so they don't catch on fire right? I think that is part of our reluctance to do the whole single payer system. My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely unhealthy is something people don't like.

I still think getting costs under control to where people could afford Healthcare without insurance would do more good than forcing everyone onto a government plan. And sure there needs to be a well run public option insurance for people who can't afford their medical care. But lower cost would make this easier to do as well.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If we make Healthcare a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking illegal as a condition of that Healthcare? We have fire codes regulating buildings so they don't catch on fire right? I think that is part of our reluctance to do the whole single payer system. My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely unhealthy is something people don't like.

I agree it seems unfair. But I think we need to analyze the cost and benefit. It doesn’t seem impossible to me that many—but not all—can be persuaded to make healthier choices with no or minimal regulation. If there’s enough benefit to us, maybe we more health-conscious people can live with the fact that there are people all along the spectrum of health consciousness who don’t all pay precisely “their fair share.” Somebody out there right now is probably more health conscious than I am and paying the same premium I do. It’s not an exact system, even as it exists now, with actuaries calculating premiums ( that are profitable to insurers). No matter what system, it is inherently imprecise and not fair across the board. The question is how to balance the cost and benefit.

 

[boulderjohn]

If we make Healthcare a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking illegal as a condition of that Healthcare? We have fire codes regulating buildings so they don't catch on fire right? I think that is part of our reluctance to do the whole single payer system. My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely unhealthy is something people don't like.

I still think getting costs under control to where people could afford Healthcare without insurance would do more good than forcing everyone onto a government plan. And sure there needs to be a well run public option insurance for people who can't afford their medical care. But lower cost would make this easier to do as well.

Ah! The old slippery slope fallacy arrives!

If we put speed limits on roads, then that will lead to lower and lower speed limits until soon we won't be able to drive cars at all and will have to return to horse and buggies!

 

[Gareth J]

If we make Healthcare a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking illegal as a condition of that Healthcare? We have fire codes regulating buildings so they don't catch on fire right? I think that is part of our reluctance to do the whole single payer system. My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely unhealthy is something people don't like.

.

You already regulate behaviour, you have policies to dissuade people from smoking. You restrict access to certain drugs.
Some of this regulation is in the form of the legal framework, some is through taxation, some is through social pressure or what is thought appropriate or acceptable behaviour.

 

[Storker]

If we make Healthcare a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking illegal as a condition of that Healthcare? We have fire codes regulating buildings so they don't catch on fire right? I think that is part of our reluctance to do the whole single payer system. My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely unhealthy is something people don't like.

If we make firefighting a community service would you then be able to regulate behavior? Could we make smoking in the bed illegal as a condition of that firefighting service? My rates being the same as an overweight, alcoholic, smoker who's life choices have made him extremely likely to have his house burn down is something people don't like.

 

[Ghost95]

There's the extreme left that thinks that everyone should get government sponsored healthcare for free and the extreme right that thinks it's a personal responsibility and if you can't afford it that's your problem, I guesss you'll die, too bad. There seems to be no moderate middle ground where you get a balance. Nobody gets everything they want but everyone gets some of what they want.

Again, the out of control costs and continuing increase in costs need to be checked before we can even start to come together on this.

 

[Jcp2]

I don’t really think of Canada, Germany, and Britain as being extremely left. If I recall correctly, they are NATO friends that have supported the US in deterring Russian and Chinese aspirations of international influence, as well as supplying forces in our military adventures in the Balkans and the Middle East.