Xs Scuba 120?

[2airishuman]

A LDS han an XS Scuba Worthington HP 120 tank on consignment for $300. I am thinking about buying it, especially since I am getting a Nitrox certification.
Is there a downside to this tank?

I have two of them. They are great tanks. There are some things to keep in mind however.

1. Any larger tank (and an HP120 certainly is a larger tank) will be heavy, especially when full, and so they are that much more difficult to handle topside. If you are comfortable carrying them, great, just be aware that they do weigh more than a smaller tank.
2. As others have noted the length is a problem for some people, depending on torso length and curvature, best thing to do is try to dive one and see how it works out. I am 6-1 and don't have a problem but there are some people who are my height who do. If they are too long for you, look for an HP117, essentially the same capacity, larger diameter, shorter length; only trouble is that on some boats HP117s are a hassle because they won't fit into the racks.

I have read several articles about HP vs LP but the issue isn't clear either way.

HP is the way the world is going. An HP tank filled to the maximum pressure allowed by DOT regulations is a better thing to dive than an LP tank filled to the maximum pressure allowed by DOT regulations. HP are smaller and lighter for the same capacity.

The waters get muddy because in many cases fill stations won't fill HP tanks to their rated capacity, or will charge more to do so, because of limitations of their equipment, or because they are sloppy. I have found this to be a real problem, but I have found a place that will fill them properly. I just have to be picky about where I take them.

It is not unusual to get a 3100 or 3200 PSI fill in a cylinder that is supposed to be filled to 3442 PSI. Then again, that's still 110 cf, so depending on the dive, it may not be a big deal.

Is this a decent price?

With a high-quality valve that has been recently rebuilt, a recent hydro and a current VIP, then that is a reasonable price to pay to a dealer.

Late last year, I paid $700 for a set of 4 HP120 cylinders, two PST, and two Worthington, that were set up as two pair of doubles including manifolds and bands. But the cylinders were out of hydro and the valves needed to be rebuilt.

You can also look at Faber prices online at Dive Gear Express or another retailer. The Faber cylinders are painted, not galvanized, and some might say that they therefore are less durable and therefore less sought after.

Would I be better off with a different tank, like an HP 100?

The HP100 is lighter and shorter, comparable in size shape and weight to an AL80. Obviously, it doesn't hold as much air as an HP120, and you still have to allow for the possibility of a short fill. They are widely used, and people like them. It really comes down to tradeoffs: how much you are comfortable carrying, how well a long tank fits your body, and how much air you use.

 

[2airishuman]

There is considerable speculation in the hydrostatic testing & inspection business that at some point in time the permit will not be renewed. Currently, the permit is in its 5th revision and will expire on 12/31/2018. If the permit expires without the DOT revising the permit, we'll all own great steel wind chimes.

There haven't been any accidents or incidents involving defects in the cylinders manufactured under this permit, and I don't think there will be any in the foreseeable future. In the absence of such defects, it is hard to image that there will be problems getting the permit renewed. If Worthington doesn't do the paperwork to get the DOT to renew it, someone else will, probably PSI.

 

[scubafanatic]

Great tanks. I own several and service quite a large number that come through our Shop. A couple of considerations. That is a PREMIUM price, considering you can purchase a Faber HP 120 for $355 from Leisurepro. As mentioned by Jay, it should have several years left on the hydro, as well as have a fresh visual inspection. You mentioned wanting to use the tank for Nitrox. If the cylinder and valve is not already cleaned for oxygen service - that will be an additional expense to make both ready for a LDS to fill it. That could cost you an additional $50 or more, depending upon the Shop and the condition of the cylinder & valve. Final consideration, the XS Scuba steel cylinders were all manufactured by Worthington. They no longer are in the scuba cylinder business. Your tank is probably stamped with the code DOT-SP 14157. That DOT Special Permit grants permission for the cylinders to be tested, inspected, and filled. There is considerable speculation in the hydrostatic testing & inspection business that at some point in time the permit will not be renewed. Currently, the permit is in its 5th revision and will expire on 12/31/2018. If the permit expires without the DOT revising the permit, we'll all own great steel wind chimes.

With all this to consider, I would think a fair price for a used cylinder of this type would be around $200/each. Otherwise, your best decision would be to purchase a new Faber steel cylinder and valve.

For those divers preferring the hot-dipped galvanized coating exterior (non painted), $ 300 is a decent price assuming it's in great shape. The only new steel tanks currently manufactured for the US market are the Painted Fabers, but lots of folks find those inferior to the 'old' Worthingtons/PSTs and will pay a premium for those, especially as the supply has pretty much dried up in the marketplace.
The main concerns, as previously noted, are the tank is 'tall', too tall for many people (I'm 5'8" and doubt the tank would work for anyone much shorter than that.....women MUCH prefer the HP 100 instead!). Weight could be a factor for some, but honestly it's the tank height you need to focus on for compatibility with your physique.)
You might wanna gear up in the store and see how it fits you, better yet, somehow arrange a test dive as a reality check before buying.

 

[pepperbelly]

The tank is in great shape. It has the thermo valve with the insert to use din or yoke.

I am just u der 6' and stout enought the weight won't be an issue.

I am still reading about the lp vs hp and short fills, etc.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The tank is in great shape. It has the thermo valve with the insert to use din or yoke.

I am just u der 6' and stout enought the weight won't be an issue.

I am still reading about the lp vs hp and short fills, etc.

One other consideration is Nitrox. If you contemplate home nitrox without a booster or a stick, i.e. cascading the O2 into the tank, LP tanks allow you to use more of the O2 in the cascade, simply because your final fill pressures are lower. May not be a concern, but for those either blending at home, or prefilling the O2 at home and getting and air top at the fill station it can make a difference. Nitrox is a good thing for older divers......

Become familiar with the risks of handling O2 before blending, and make sure the commercial fill station is aware and comfortable with your plan if you go that route.

Tobin

 

[pepperbelly]

I am taking a Nitrox class and want to use it when possible. BTW I'm 58 years old.
I don't have the capability to fill at home so I will be depending on a fill station when I do use Nitrox.
Currently I have an AL80. I am only doing rec OW dives for now.

 

[scubafanatic]

The tank is in great shape. It has the thermo valve with the insert to use din or yoke.

I am just u der 6' and stout enought the weight won't be an issue.

I am still reading about the lp vs hp and short fills, etc.

The weight won't be that much more than an AL 80, and your overall weight (tank and lead weights) probably won't be worse because the extra weight of the steel tank will offset some of the lead you'd have to lug around underwater anyway if you were diving the lighter AL80. The extra length of a HP 120 can make it a bit more of a pain to lug around by the tank valve, depending on your height and arm length. Sounds like you're tall enough at 6' for the tank to work for you underwater without being too cumbersome. I greatly prefer the non painted/galvanized tanks myself, much more tolerant of abuse, and lower maintainance exteriors...it's really a shame nobody produces them anymore.

 

[pepperbelly]

I will see if the price is negotiable. It's at the shop on consignment.

 

[scubafanatic]

Did you ever make the purchase ?

 

[pepperbelly]

I haven't bought it- yet.