Wreck Penetration

Do you consider penetration wreck diving to be technical diving?

  • Yes

    Votes: 128 55.4%
  • No

    Votes: 21 9.1%
  • It depends

    Votes: 82 35.5%

  • Total voters
    231

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Technical diving seems to be defined as anything outside of recreational diving.

With that as a backdrop, penetration diving would seem to fall into the technical diving category since to my knowledge, none of the major "recreational" agencies offer a wreck penetration certification.

Many recreational divers however do enter into wrecks in varying degrees. There are simple swim throughs which do involve briefly swimming through an overhead environment - typically in one side of the wreck and out the other (where light and access are completely clear,) limited penetrations where one may briefly enter a large open space and then swim back out the same point of entry and even guided tours, where a DM will take a small group through a wreck known to have an easy and safe interior to navigate.

True "penetration" diving - and the type which I think we can all agree is technical - would involve the need for redundant systems, wreck reels and penetration where the loss of natural light occured.

So all those who selected "It Depends" are correct. While recreational agencies frown on any overhead environments, the real world reality is that most recreational divers will do swimthroughs and limited penetrations with no additional training. We can argue all day as to whether this is safe or not... but that won't help.

What will help is if all recreational divers considering diving down to see a wreck - will simply take the recreational "Wreck Diving" course, they will learn everything they need to know to conduct their dive safely - including being told - Don't go inside.

Happy and Safe Dving!

PS... Don't always trust DM's to do the smart thing. Here is my example. A couple of years ago I was diving in Truk Lagoon (I'll leave the operation un-named.) We were routinely offered to be led on true penetration dives - 1 to 2 decks down inside the wrecks at depths of 100 - 150ft. Everyone including the DM's were diving only single AL 80's. NOT SMART.
 
Absolutely not! I do not recognize the concept of "technical diving."



That's because there are many different definitions of the term and even if everyone were to agree on one definition, the designation would still be useless.

About 20 years ago somebody coined the term to encompass a bunch of unrelated activities. At first it meant dives that broke rules established by agencies. Now, it's trying to (and succeeding in many cases) make new rules to put "technical" diving within another set of rules. Later folks started including established, although not mainstream, specialties, like cave diving, in with the other unrelated types of diving under the "technical" umbrella. "Technical" diving is a meaningless term. It means too many things to too many people. When you say "technical" diving I have no idea if you are referring to cave, mixed gas, solo, deep air, something else or a combination. If you are interested in mixed gas; refer to mixed gas; if it's cave; refer to cave, etc. Your message will be much clearer. Expertise in one type of "technical" diving does not carry over into another. "Technical" diving is a useless distinction that IMHO we should all stop using.

Good show, Walter. I thought I'd lost my mind when I saw all the opinions stated above. I guess that makes you and me officially fall-partners.:wink:
 
Why not name the operation? Everyone should know if an operation is not run safely.

I don't believe in publicly downing anyone or any operation unless it is called for.

First, the incident was a couple of years ago and I do not currently have knowledge that what occurred at that time is still being practiced - therefore I do not wish to do harm to an operation unjustifiably. Our situaiton could have been a rogue DM or what have you - and not the policy of the operator.

The point of my post was to make sure that you as a diver take care of yourself, don't dive beyond your training and don't be a dependent diver... be independent and make your own decisions on what is safe. Be a leader - not a follower... and don't depend on a DM to save you. In my years of diving I've twice seen DM's fail to enact rescues (while I, on vacation, had to step in and do their job.) I've twice seen DM's get divers lost and on the mentioned occassion and one other, haphazardly lead unprepared divers into dangerous situations.

Newbies too easily fall prey to the idea that DM's at resort destinations will save them if needed. I find that to be far from the truth. Most of them are more than adequate guides... but you'd better not bet your life on their ability to save you...

Happy and Safe Diving!
 
That makes sense but if I ask someone what kind of diving they do and they answer that they do some technical diving, I can assume that they mean any one of those things but it can give me an idea of their experience level.
Why would you think that? Why would you trust that? Why would you believe that?
 
Why would you think that? Why would you trust that? Why would you believe that?

I didn't say that I would trust everything they say, I said it would give me an idea. If someone tells me that they are into technical diving, I can find out a little more. I didn't say I was going to hand them some gear and go into a cave with them without any further inquiry.
 
I don't believe in publicly downing anyone or any operation unless it is called for.

First, the incident was a couple of years ago and I do not currently have knowledge that what occurred at that time is still being practiced - therefore I do not wish to do harm to an operation unjustifiably. Our situaiton could have been a rogue DM or what have you - and not the policy of the operator.

The point of my post was to make sure that you as a diver take care of yourself, don't dive beyond your training and don't be a dependent diver... be independent and make your own decisions on what is safe. Be a leader - not a follower... and don't depend on a DM to save you. In my years of diving I've twice seen DM's fail to enact rescues (while I, on vacation, had to step in and do their job.) I've twice seen DM's get divers lost and on the mentioned occassion and one other, haphazardly lead unprepared divers into dangerous situations.

Newbies too easily fall prey to the idea that DM's at resort destinations will save them if needed. I find that to be far from the truth. Most of them are more than adequate guides... but you'd better not bet your life on their ability to save you...

Happy and Safe Diving!

That makes sense. Thanks!
 
I'm a large mamal type and even a simple "swim thru" can be challenging for me, so I avoid it for the most part....
 
Interesting how Casa and Rescue are trying to turn this into a gear issue

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I wasn't making it a gear thing. I was trying to relate that people have been doing what is now deemed "technical "diving for a long time and doing it safely without the emphasis on having to have all the tech training...even before the term tech diving was coined. Where does everybody think all the benchmarks sin the class came from? They came from guys like Dan Berg and Gary Gentile who pushed the boundaries of recreational diveng and adapted concepts of commercial diving and put them all together to give the recreational diver a platform to safely dive and penetrate wrecks.

If you want to make it a gear issue, over time it was found that back plate wing combos worked better for this gear intensive form of diving...so it is partially about the gear too but it's not an issue.

Steve
 
But just because it's been sanitized does not make it safe as the three men who died in the Spiegel proved when they got stupid and did not make it out.


And it's because people got STUPID many Florida dive operations have taken a shotgun approach and are not allowing penetrations if you don't have formal tech training. I have a problem with that as stated before, Why should divers who have proven they have knowledge and experience be forced to pay alot of money to get a card saying they can play tech diver? Why am I allowed to penetrate wrecks in the North Atlantic (NY, NJ, CT and MA) but not be able to do the same thing in FL? Several main stream dive cert agencies give credit to life experience. I believe SDI will give you their Advanced diver card without taking the specialties if you can proove experience.

Steve
 

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